Please nerf Holy.

[Crescent_Dusk]

Sorry to disappoint you but in the realm of AK and Palace farming runs I don't even leave Cleric Stance as a SCH because my faerie can indeed solo cure the tank. (The exception of when doing palace runs and doing it AoE spam style which is seriously not all that much faster and substantially more dangerous.) If you are talking about Primals and Coil(have not done coil yet) Then you are probably correct even though I do have plenty of time to Cleric Stance and DoT up Titan's Heart but obviously that is with another healer as well.

For trash mob fights yes I will give you that WHM Holy is probably better than a SCH but on boss fights where my faerie can more than easily solo heal for the time it takes me to get my DoTs up I am going to bank on SCH being able to do more DPS. (And this is a lot of boss fights).

I have also done WP speed runs on SCH and been just fine and fast and all that good stuff. So again I am not sure where you are getting such a DEFINITE "AH HELLZ NO SCH" on that one.

AoE speed runs are much faster. It's not dangerous at all if you have the AoE for it. Which Holy does. You only need like 2 Holy's for each big pull and alongside the BLM popping his AoE and a summoner Contagion Bane, the group of mobs is wiped out quickly.

[ApolloGenX]

If they aren't taking you as SCH, it's because they aren't taking YOU.

[Thunderz]

Holy is fine stop crying over it

WP best format i've seen was a SCH, WHM, BRD, PLD

l2p

[Nourah]

WHM holy is currently OP, I say this as a level 50 WHM. Try running 3 WHMs + 1 Tank in WP... Depending on your gear you can get down to 12-15min runs. Running 3 WHMs may seem absurd, but it is just as viable if not more so than 1 WHM and 2 aoe dpsers.

[Nullie]

WHM holy is currently OP, I say this as a level 50 WHM. Try running 3 WHMs + 1 Tank in WP... Depending on your gear you can get down to 12-15min runs. Running 3 WHMs may seem absurd, but it is just as viable if not more so than 1 WHM and 2 aoe dpsers.

No, it isn't. You know what makes it powerful? Cleric Stance. Do you know why it does? Because it swaps Mind for Int. I don't need to tell you that. Know why we have such high mind? Because of all this ilvl 70/90 gear. Have you ever tried to see how much Holy does without Cleric Stance on? What happens to white mages during cleric stance? We take a knock for healing potency. A good sacrifice don't ya think? We get Holy at level 45. Our first and --> only <--- aoe. Only have the option to use it from those levels+ which is 5 more to cap. The whole time we are forced to throw stones, blow winds and shoot a water gun at the enemy. Whm finally get something that is good and people have a problem with it cause it is something their choice class doesn't have. Never mind the fact that while fairys heal, they have the option to nuke better because there is something always able to heal. May be dumb as a rock, but it is still better than no healing at all. It isn't used that often during bosses because healers are busy healing and not nuking and people are complaining about trash mobs?

So if Holy is "nerfed" what happens to its base damage? Just how much should it be reduced to without making it only castable in cleric stance? Even if they substitute or take away the stun, it will still be powerful. Holy has always been a powerful spell in the final fantasy universe and one of my favorites next to Ultima. Why make it into something pathetic?

[Crescent_Dusk]

It should not be powerful without Cleric Stance. No other healer spell is.

Getting a OP spell is not how you justify being special.

A healer should NEVER be doing an AoE spell that rivals or outperforms the AoE of a DPS class.

[Eriane]

It should not be powerful without Cleric Stance. No other healer spell is.

Getting a OP spell is not how you justify being special.

A healer should NEVER be doing an AoE spell that rivals or outperforms the AoE of a DPS class.

Its not powerful at all without cleric stance.

Its not an op spell. Its a 3 second cast with a 1 sec delay for over 500 mana and diminishing returns on stun.

It doesn't outperform actual aoe dps classes. Blm's get modifiers healers don't and can use dps buffs. I have seen blm aoe crit for double my highest crit.

Why shouldn't a healer be able to solo or farm if they sacrifice their healing? Cleric stance means you can't heal effectively at all. The idea that a healer is only ever a healer and never does anything except heal is outdated and silly.

[Nullie]

A healer should NEVER be doing an AoE spell that rivals or outperforms the AoE of a DPS class.

Why? Because you said so?

The other day I decided to join a random castrum in duty. Didn't feel like searching for a group or speed running. Just felt like playing. End up getting paired with another white mage. Half the people was their first time including the white mage. So the tank is decked in all darklight and relic +1 goes to tanking. Gathers up all the mobs. I switch to cleric and start my holy. The tank of course isn't taking hardly any damage thanks to his defense and regen. The other white mage notices and tries to mimic what I am doing as he was just standing there. He only had af armor on and a white level 50ish weapon.

Let me tell you even with his cleric stance on I don't think he would have done much more damage than with it off. I had almost 4k hp while he had around 2.7k hp. My cure 1 were shy of about 100-200 points of healing than his cure 2. The amount of damage he was hitting for his holy was what I would have been doing with my cleric stance off. If it was nerfed just how much more weaker could that spell get for him?

Before all this ivl70/90 gear was common in players people managed to beat wanderer's palace with just regular gear and regular weapons. Who would have thought it was possible? And still to this day it is. Now try playing Coil with those armor and weapons. You can't do it. I don't think your party could survive the golem stomp to make it to the first boss in turn 1. But now we have equipment that lets us complete this content pretty easy. Now take those players and gear we have and then take it to that back to a dungeon that can be completed with regular artifact armor easy enough. Yeah. Everyone there is OP. EVERYONE. Doesn't matter how you spin it. The enemies aren't leveling up. They aren't getting better armor. They aren't getting better weapons. Their skills aren't doing anymore damage.

We are way past what was normal at one point in this game. By nerfing holy, you only will hurt those players who are new to the game. It isn't our fault we were given this gear with tons of mind on it to use at level 50. If people honestly want a nerf, then it needs to be to equipment, but I don't agree with that and probably neither will you or most everyone here.

[Crescent_Dusk]

It should not be powerful without Cleric Stance. No other healer spell is.

Getting a OP spell is not how you justify being special.

A healer should NEVER be doing an AoE spell that rivals or outperforms the AoE of a DPS class.

Sure is hard watching the Fairy heal for you.

Raid heal without Medica II (which is what scholars do), and it's not like you can't slap regen on someone while you're healing somebody else.

Then you can get back to me about WHM being hard.

[Deculture]

Raid heal without Medica II (which is what scholars do), and it's not like you can't slap regen on someone while you're healing somebody else.

Then you can get back to me about WHM being hard.

SCH and WHM are about the same in difficulty unless you find micromanaging a few more abilities that are independent of your own GCD "difficult". On another note, SCH will never have threat issues because your healing is always going to be split between you and your faerie. A WHM, on the other hand, always has to gauge how much threat his spells will generate. This is extremely noticeable in encounters where healing threat is potentially a raid wiping issue (e.g. Turn 4).

Honestly, you're trying to compare a WHM's strength (aoe raid healing) to a SCH's weak point (shield based AoE heal to compliment WHM). That would be like a WHM complaining about how good SCHs are at single target healing (faerie manual Embrace casting + Physick + Lustrates). The only thing I would change for SCH healing is make pet abilities macroable (so that you can create a mouseover for Embrace), further improve pet AI (Selene/Eos still does w/e they want with their abilities once you start manual casting Embrace...), and SCH shields stack if cast by different SCHs. I play both jobs on a frequent basis and I honestly believe that SE did a good job on balancing the healer roles in this game outside of a few fringe elements such as WP speed runs.

Replacing a WHM with a SCH for WP speed runs makes it slightly longer (no more than 3 minutes), but that's mostly because our Bane currently doesn't spread to more than 3 targets which really limits our mass AoE capabilities down to just Miasma 2 and Shadowflare. I'm still not sure if Bane is just flat out bugged or the tooltip is wrong (it states "all targets").

im a whm and do 15-18min speed runs of WP with my FC.
we do pld, brd, blm, whm combination. we are all quite geared with many ilv90 pieces.

brd mana songs while we aoe, so tank can spam flash.
We take 2-4 packs of enemies at a time and aoe them.

i would love to see a whm dance in and out of cleric stance while healing that, even with the tank using their normal cds. once the cds wear off, i have to SPAM cure 2 to keep him alive. if i had to take the extra 3-5 secs to turn on/off cleric stance (yes its a VERY long time to turn it off, since its affected by gcd, and even after gcd is off cd, for some reason it still does like to go off, then u hit it twice and turn it back on some times and -.-)

also its not that easy to weave a 3 sec cast into healing rotations. like try spamming shadow flare during a fight without your fairy healing XD

i usually only am able to cleric stance 1 holy, or maybe 2 if i do them back to back, otherwise tank will die.
sch in general do more damage then whm do in fight lol. and they are able to easier weave attacks into their rotations.

Try having your BRD mana song for you while your group is on the move and Foe Requiem instead during AoE. I can usually Divine Seal Regen -> Cure 2 to top tank then Cleric Stance Holy until the pack is dead because of the dmg increase the BLM and I get from Foe Req.