How Vengeance and Steel Cyclone could be a way to balance WAR

[Ipkonfig]

Tanking in Coil as a WAR is like shooting yourself in the foot and trying to run a mile, can you do it? Probably but it will hurt and take exponentially longer. Dunno if Lodestone still has me in the HQ crafted MNK stuff I made, but I have a few ilevel 90 tank pieces, 6k HP as PLD, and 7600ish as WAR (in group). I don't think that WARs need a buff, but that PLDs need to be nerfed. We are missing an entire gear level (ilevel 80 from CT) and PLDs can waltz into coil and take down the first 4 turns with relative ease

[thuswindburn]

Shizzaren, have you even bothered to level marauder? Because you appear to be talking out your ass about how they work. Not sure what the deal is with this small percentage of paladins who feel the need to try and convince everyone that warrior mechanics are working properly.

[RapBreon]

Wow? Don't you have the ability to read? I was clearly referring to OP which is lvl 36 and complaining about warrs, and they shine from 30-39. That a guy complains at the level which they beat paladins by far, proves that the lvl 50 probably are complaining unnecessarily too. Please read the whole context and don't just jump to conclusions. Stop QQ on forums about warrs being bad when they are perfectly viable.

Holy shit that is the worst extension of logic imaginable.

[Shizzaren]

wow..

Defensively: PLD > WARR. Makes sense, I mean you are using a friggin two hander and dish out more damage
Offensively: Warr > PLD. The way it should be, paladin cant outdamage a warrior of equal ilvl.
Utility: PLD > WARR atm, but this will change between patches probably.


Basically u can say that warrs are much better for farming, and if u want warriors to be at the same lvl as pld defensively ur on pot... Then everyone and their mom would play warriors as they would do more damage, and be equal defensively. So much unneeded Q.Q from warriors nowadays!

[Giantbane]

wow..

Defensively: PLD > WARR. Makes sense, I mean you are using a friggin two hander and dish out more damage
Offensively: Warr > PLD. The way it should be, paladin cant outdamage a warrior of equal ilvl.
Utility: PLD > WARR atm, but this will change between patches probably.


Basically u can say that warrs are much better for farming, and if u want warriors to be at the same lvl as pld defensively ur on pot... Then everyone and their mom would play warriors as they would do more damage, and be equal defensively. So much unneeded Q.Q from warriors nowadays!

They're both tanks, your primary job is to hold the enemy attention and not die. DPS is a secondary consideration.

And why would anybody want to be good at farming if they're second rate for new content? If PLD are better at clearing fresh content, then it stands to reason they get the better gear first and will be better at farming as a result.

Not to mention, PLD damage is pretty close to WAR damage if you play it correctly and gear it the same way as a WAR. And at 1/4 of the effort to play it too!

[Paikis]

Not to mention, PLD damage is pretty close to WAR damage if you play it correctly and gear it the same way as a WAR. And at 1/4 of the effort to play it too!

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but I really wish people would stop spreading this untruth.

WAR DPS is about 25-30% more than a PLD. The reason people say that it is negligible, is because in 8 man groups, it is only about 5-7% more damage from the entire group. In 4 man groups its more like 10-15% more total output, and while solo its closer to 25-30%. The damage difference is quite large on an individual basis, but only increases your raid's damage by a small amount.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

kidding me jeckyl? that is the worst argument I've ever heard. Obviously I have more experience than the lvl 36, and also even the developers say that warriors are fine.. And they test it/have people continually test them all the time... Someone needs to learn how to play!

Yes, I need to learn how to play. I've tanked up to Turn 5 in PLD AND WAR, and I'm not stuck on Garuda as you seem to be.

Let me let you in on something about SE developers. This is something you saw in FFXI heavily. The community claim that most of the classes are actually broken and crap and needs buffs. SE refuses and says they are fine, for about 6 months. Thus, for the next 6 months, these classes stay shit and broken and not wanted by the community, until 6 months later SE comes out and claims that they need a buff.

This is experience not just fron the classes but from the company themself.

But hey. A PLD who hasn't even leveled WAR nor even eneter Coil is trying to tell me I don't know how to play. Must be the reason.

[Giantbane]

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but I really wish people would stop spreading this untruth.

WAR DPS is about 25-30% more than a PLD. The reason people say that it is negligible, is because in 8 man groups, it is only about 5-7% more damage from the entire group. In 4 man groups its more like 10-15% more total output, and while solo its closer to 25-30%. The damage difference is quite large on an individual basis, but only increases your raid's damage by a small amount.

what do you base this on? most calculations I've seen show PLD damage output within 10% of a WAR. Where the PLD lacks in their base combo dmg and lack of maim or storm's eye, they make up with Circle of Scorn and Spirit's Within being off the GCD.

[Paikis]

what do you base this on? most calculations I've seen show PLD damage output within 10% of a WAR. Where the PLD lacks in their base combo dmg and lack of maim or storm's eye, they make up with Circle of Scorn and Spirit's Within being off the GCD.

Most damage comparisons I've seen are comparing non-tanking PLDs with non-tanking WARs. PLD has an offensive stance, where Warrior doesn't have a stance to boost it's damage and can either remove the damage penalty on Defiance and lose access to some damage skills, or can keep the damage skills and keep the damage penalty. In addition, most comparisons show the PLD using Spirits Within (a silence) in their rotation, but not allowing the WAR to use Brutal Swing because its a stun. They also allow the PLD to benefit from Storm's Eye (effectively an 11% increase in damage).

Turns out, when you stack everything in favour of PLD damage, they still don't do as much as a WAR... but they do come close.

[calamityz]

They should make Holmgang more useful. Lower the CD to 90s and give it a 15% slashing resistance debuff. That 30% slashing resistance combined with SE could give us that extra dps to make self-heals more efficient. Or maybe add some sort of mitigation buff to it since you know..we only have one.