How Vengeance and Steel Cyclone could be a way to balance WAR

[Shizzaren]

wow..

Defensively: PLD > WARR. Makes sense, I mean you are using a friggin two hander and dish out more damage
Offensively: Warr > PLD. The way it should be, paladin cant outdamage a warrior of equal ilvl.
Utility: PLD > WARR atm, but this will change between patches probably.


Basically u can say that warrs are much better for farming, and if u want warriors to be at the same lvl as pld defensively ur on pot... Then everyone and their mom would play warriors as they would do more damage, and be equal defensively. So much unneeded Q.Q from warriors nowadays!

[Giantbane]

wow..

Defensively: PLD > WARR. Makes sense, I mean you are using a friggin two hander and dish out more damage
Offensively: Warr > PLD. The way it should be, paladin cant outdamage a warrior of equal ilvl.
Utility: PLD > WARR atm, but this will change between patches probably.


Basically u can say that warrs are much better for farming, and if u want warriors to be at the same lvl as pld defensively ur on pot... Then everyone and their mom would play warriors as they would do more damage, and be equal defensively. So much unneeded Q.Q from warriors nowadays!

They're both tanks, your primary job is to hold the enemy attention and not die. DPS is a secondary consideration.

And why would anybody want to be good at farming if they're second rate for new content? If PLD are better at clearing fresh content, then it stands to reason they get the better gear first and will be better at farming as a result.

Not to mention, PLD damage is pretty close to WAR damage if you play it correctly and gear it the same way as a WAR. And at 1/4 of the effort to play it too!

[Paikis]

Not to mention, PLD damage is pretty close to WAR damage if you play it correctly and gear it the same way as a WAR. And at 1/4 of the effort to play it too!

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but I really wish people would stop spreading this untruth.

WAR DPS is about 25-30% more than a PLD. The reason people say that it is negligible, is because in 8 man groups, it is only about 5-7% more damage from the entire group. In 4 man groups its more like 10-15% more total output, and while solo its closer to 25-30%. The damage difference is quite large on an individual basis, but only increases your raid's damage by a small amount.

[Giantbane]

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but I really wish people would stop spreading this untruth.

WAR DPS is about 25-30% more than a PLD. The reason people say that it is negligible, is because in 8 man groups, it is only about 5-7% more damage from the entire group. In 4 man groups its more like 10-15% more total output, and while solo its closer to 25-30%. The damage difference is quite large on an individual basis, but only increases your raid's damage by a small amount.

what do you base this on? most calculations I've seen show PLD damage output within 10% of a WAR. Where the PLD lacks in their base combo dmg and lack of maim or storm's eye, they make up with Circle of Scorn and Spirit's Within being off the GCD.

[Paikis]

what do you base this on? most calculations I've seen show PLD damage output within 10% of a WAR. Where the PLD lacks in their base combo dmg and lack of maim or storm's eye, they make up with Circle of Scorn and Spirit's Within being off the GCD.

Most damage comparisons I've seen are comparing non-tanking PLDs with non-tanking WARs. PLD has an offensive stance, where Warrior doesn't have a stance to boost it's damage and can either remove the damage penalty on Defiance and lose access to some damage skills, or can keep the damage skills and keep the damage penalty. In addition, most comparisons show the PLD using Spirits Within (a silence) in their rotation, but not allowing the WAR to use Brutal Swing because its a stun. They also allow the PLD to benefit from Storm's Eye (effectively an 11% increase in damage).

Turns out, when you stack everything in favour of PLD damage, they still don't do as much as a WAR... but they do come close.

[Giantbane]

Most damage comparisons I've seen are comparing non-tanking PLDs with non-tanking WARs. PLD has an offensive stance, where Warrior doesn't have a stance to boost it's damage and can either remove the damage penalty on Defiance and lose access to some damage skills, or can keep the damage skills and keep the damage penalty. In addition, most comparisons show the PLD using Spirits Within (a silence) in their rotation, but not allowing the WAR to use Brutal Swing because its a stun. They also allow the PLD to benefit from Storm's Eye (effectively an 11% increase in damage).

Turns out, when you stack everything in favour of PLD damage, they still don't do as much as a WAR... but they do come close.

I've seen both, in and out of tank stance, with and without storm's eye for the PLD. Kitru has done many permutations on this. None of it comes out to a 25%+ DPS advantage for the WAR. Where are you seeing that?