Should have made FFXI-2 instead of this game IMO

[Feifonwong]

This game isn't meant for alt characters, the do everything on one character design is superior to leveling a ton of alts doing the same unlock missions countless times. You must not be very high level or are just plain doing it wrong if you are going to try to tell me that your gathering profession levels faster than any type of DOL/DOW.

FFXI was a great game, this is not ffxi, this is ffxiv, if you want ffxi, the servers are still up and running, why not log in and find what you are looking for.

Because that game is somewhat the same as this one. Or at least has evolved.

[Lisotte]

People don't do quests for the sake of going out and doing this awesome quest. They do these terrible quests disguising the mundane activity of solo grinding for the sake of the exp you get from it.Okay so WoW introduced this slick form of questing that transformed leveling in MMOs up to this point. Problem is that when most/all you do is quest anymore, you get REALLY sick of quests REAL fast and they don't matter any more. At some point you realise... "Wait this guy doesn't really need those 10 rabbit hides to clothe his family, the game needs me to go kill 10 rabbits to reward me with exp." The fact that this is a SOLO thing makes it all the worse; sure you can quest together with a friend, but that's not reflected in the quest, and if you both don't have the same quests it is worse for one of you. FFXI's exp parties had you in a GROUP, and you had to make sure you had a balanced group that was a well-oiled machine, with everyone doing their part. You'd be chatting as you did it and sometimes made friends with the people you grouped with.

[Reslin]

FFXI's exp parties had you in a GROUP, and you had to make sure you had a balanced group that was a well-oiled machine, with everyone doing their part. You'd be chatting as you did it and sometimes made friends with the people you grouped with.

I came from Everquest. I've also played quite a bit of FFXI. I don't want that in an mmo anymore. I don't want to be forced to group up to level. If I feel like grouping I'll do dungeons/fates. If I feel like playing solo I will do quests. I'm in the camp who wants to see more quests. Yes I'm doing the quests for exp but it gives my character incentive for being there. There is an in lore explanation why my character is killing the rabbits other than he hates white fluffy things with the burning intensity of a thousand suns. When I played Aion when it originally came out there came a point where you run out of quests in the late twenties. Guess what I did? Stopped playing. I wasn't alone in that regard. I'm done with the whole "Group up to kill mobs for exp." I'm also done with "spend 4 hours or more to gain one level." I'm also done with "No one on? Progress has become impossible. No one needs your class? Progress is impossible."

You know what mmo tried to go back to that after WoW launched for a more "old school" feel? Vanguard Saga of Heroes. I don't even hear anyone mentioning it today at all. Sorry but you're not going to convince the majority going back to how it used to be is a good idea. The genre has moved past this.

[Lisotte]

Actually I have heard about vanguard recently... but I digress.
I agree with you 100% that you shouldn't be forced to group up to level. I don't want to group up to level all the time either; sometimes I DO want to go do things solo (when I don't have much time, or could be interrupted, or whatever).
However, in this game leveling is heavily skewed towards questing (till you run out of quests but that's another issue). Dungeons are kind of meh for exp. With the queue times you can't really say "I'm going to grind dungeons now for exp" unless you're a tank.
As for FATEs... they're such a terrible experience that why don't we leave them out of the discussion altogether.

[Reslin]

I agree with you 100% that you shouldn't be forced to group up to level. I don't want to group up to level all the time either; sometimes I DO want to go do things solo (when I don't exp. With the queue times you can't really say "I'm going to grind dungeons now for exp" unless you're a tank.

Alright, now I'm starting to get more with what you're coming from. I apologize, I'm very used to people going "The current modern trend of mmo's isn't doing all that hot obviously the best solution is to go with the older model ones." which won't work either. IMO? We could use some more quests in the 40-50 range. I also think some of the quests should open back up when you pick a new class. I think dungeon exp should be brought up quite a bit. I also think dungeons should have more reward drops but.. that's just me. Right now honestly? There's no point in questing either. Fates are better than both dungeons and questing. Questing is better than dungeons. Dungeons are the red-headed step child here and they shouldn't be. They should be the best exp imo.

[Raskbuck]

My impression of FFXIV is that it took things to an extreme. "I want everything NOW." kind of mentality.

The game hands you everything on a silver platter.
Want to get somewhere? Teleport everywhere, whenever you want!
Walking is too slow? Sprint makes you run at the same speed of a mount at level 1!
Need gear? Dungeons drop the equivalent of HQ Melded gear for free!
Classes are too hard? Don't worry! We have simplified combat in favor of a more casual-friendly approach.
Exploring high level areas is too dangerous? You can safely escape monsters even if they are 30 levels higher than you!

*sigh* Now don't get me wrong, I love the game and I will keep playing it. It just feels too... "floaty" for me. Dying is a joke, you don't have to work for your pre-endgame equipment, people already have relics within the first month... I feel it took things to an extreme.

[Reslin]

My impression of FFXIV is that it took things to an extreme. "I want everything NOW." kind of mentality.

Without artificial caps on things people will always have end game items within a month. Realize, that unlike years ago most players are veteran mmo players now. If they re-released vanilla EQ? I promise you if I wanted to I could be raiding within a month or so. Note that I am pretty geared on my scholar but I also play 4-8 hours a day. This is considered "Casual." by many. I know people who put in 16 hours a day. No grind in the world unless it's ultra extreme is going to block them out of devouring the content.

[Raskbuck]

Without artificial caps on things people will always have end game items within a month. Realize, that unlike years ago most players are veteran mmo players now. If they re-released vanilla EQ? I promise you if I wanted to I could be raiding within a month or so. Note that I am pretty geared on my scholar but I also play 4-8 hours a day. This is considered "Casual." by many. I know people who put in 16 hours a day. No grind in the world unless it's ultra extreme is going to block them out of devouring the content.

Catering exclusively to the endgame will create yet another shallow gear treadmill with no real substance behind it. Some players are no different than a hungry locust looking to devour whatever content they can. Do we really need to focus the game on satisfying their needs and leave everyone else in the dark?

[Nadrojj]

My impression of FFXIV is that it took things to an extreme. "I want everything NOW." kind of mentality.

It's this way because they knew they had to cater to casual gamers, as they would be the ones who sub and help them recoup their losses from 1.0. I believe they've done a good job in adding difficult content to keep the people who consider themselves hardcore around long enough, relics/af2/allagan being the three exmaples. Patch 2.1 will offer new content for these players to blaze through then complain about not having anything to do again, all the while the people who play 5 hours a week will complain that things are still too difficult. They need to be able to cater to both sides to stay successful.

[Raskbuck]

It's this way because they knew they had to cater to casual gamers, as they would be the ones who sub and help them recoup their losses from 1.0. I believe they've done a good job in adding difficult content to keep the people who consider themselves hardcore around long enough, relics/af2/allagan being the three exmaples. Patch 2.1 will offer new content for these players to blaze through then complain about not having anything to do again, all the while the people who play 5 hours a week will complain that things are still too difficult. They need to be able to cater to both sides to stay successful.

It's virtually impossible to keep everyone happy, sadly. While the intention to do so is nice, FFXIV will eventually need to take more risks in the future; otherwise it's risking to become a shallow game.

It has a lot of potential, don't get me wrong. I feel these next months will be essential to determine the game's direction.