[BARD] Should Heavier Shot should be changed?

[RonPierce]

This is like saying you shouldn't invest in long term high interest money sources because you could spend the money on scratchies and get more.

This isn't banking... Its a Proc in an MMO. Using procs reactively should always benefit you because reactive gameplay is skill. RNG magically causing you to do less DPs by playing reactively is bad. That's not a fair comparison at all... For instance. Do you think people would be happy if Firestarter had a 20% chance to actually slow your dps? Heck no, people would be livid.

[Keslor]

well to put it simply, as an example, 10% chance to crit vs 100% chance to crit... which one would you want to use right away?
we want instant gratification! just use the 100% crit chance ability that's available! win

[RonPierce]

well to put it simply, as an example, 10% chance to crit vs 100% chance to crit... which one would you want to use right away?
we want instant gratification! just use the 100% crit chance ability that's available! win

I'm not sure people are getting my point... Its not about the net. Its about the fact that playing well can actually hurt your dps. Just think about that sentence long enough and you'll understand why its a bad design. I'm not complaining about my DPS being low. Just the design of this. Think about the statement "Playing well can lower your dps in patches" and you will see why its bad. If you can't then the rest is out of my hands...

[Furious]

This isn't banking... Its a Proc in an MMO. Using procs reactively should always benefit you because reactive gameplay is skill. RNG magically causing you to do less DPs by playing reactively is bad. That's not a fair comparison at all... For instance. Do you think people would be happy if Firestarter had a 20% chance to actually slow your dps? Heck no, people would be livid.

I don't even know why you're still posting. You have said multiple times you know it is an increase (you say a bit of an increase, but it's actually a lot of an increase). There are no realistic circumstances outside of heavy crit chance increase or extremely short time period where using heavy shot over straighter shot will be a dps increase. If you are worried about it being a potential dps loss over the course of 1 or 2 gcds, then you are thinking far, FAR too short term.

I'm not sure people are getting my point... Its not about the net. Its about the fact that playing well can actually hurt your dps. Just think about that sentence long enough and you'll understand why its a bad design. I'm not complaining about my DPS being low. Just the design of this. Think about the statement "Playing well can lower your dps in patches" and you will see why its bad. If you can't then the rest is out of my hands...

Playing well over the course of any realistic time scale under realistic buff scenarios cannot lower your DPS. Or, more accurately, it can, but you'd best not stand outside in a thunderstorm either if it does.

[RonPierce]

Words.

10-15% chance (your crit rate) a number that scales upward as you get better gear is the chances that it would hurt your dps... If you have Internal Release you're looking at about a 30-40% chance that you'd be lowering your DPS by using it. Come on now, don't throw this stuff around like I'm being unreasonable. 10% chance ALONE for a proc to be worse dps than your normal hit is terrible design dude... And its a proc that gets worse as you scale your crit chance with better armor...

[Lucipurr]

Please don't buff the already best and most wanted dps class. I already hate being last pick cuz ya know mnk is meh to everyone. ^^

[RonPierce]

Please don't buff the already best and most wanted dps class. I already hate being last pick. ^^

Honestly, I wouldn't mind losing some potency on Heavy shot if they buffed the proc on Heavier Shot and made heavier shot increase the damage of Straighter shot but a reasonable amount (net the damage the same, just make Straighter Shot really stand out) and I'd be pleased as hell. In fact that'd make the job at least a LITTLE harder to play because missing/slow reacting to Straighter Shot procs would actually mean more. I'm not asking for buffs or a free ride. I just want the game to feel designed well... Everyone else in here has self interests and is just afraid of anything that sounds like a potential BARD buff, I'm not asking for that.

[Furious]

10-15% chance (your crit rate) a number that scales upward as you get better gear is the chances that it would hurt your dps... If you have Internal Release you're looking at about a 30-40% chance that you'd be lowering your DPS by using it. Come on now, don't throw this stuff around like I'm being unreasonable. 10% chance ALONE for a proc to be worse dps than your normal hit is terrible design dude... And its a proc that gets worse as you scale your crit chance with better armor...

Again, you are looking at a GCD by GCD basis. Over the course of any given fight, it is a practical impossibility for using straighter shot procs to be a dps loss. The fact that it goes from "practically impossible" to "slightly more but still practically impossible" doesn't change things notably. You _ARE_ being unreasonable.

And finally, playing devil's advocate, let's say that your gear does reach a point where under internal release, heavy shot becomes a dps increase over straighter shot; it then becomes a measure of skill to know when to IGNORE procs rather than use them. Bad players will use straighter shots with much delay or not at all. Mediocre players will use all straighter shots. Great players will use straighter shots when it is a dps increase and ignore them when it is a dps loss.

[RonPierce]

Again, you are looking at a GCD by GCD basis. Over the course of any given fight, it is a practical impossibility for using straighter shot procs to be a dps loss. The fact that it goes from "practically impossible" to "slightly more but still practically impossible" doesn't change things notably. You _ARE_ being unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable to expect reactive play to always be a good thing... Its all about how they weigh the numbers, read the post right before this one I'm quoting. There's nothing fun about reactive play that has a 10-40% chance (depending on buffs at the time) to slow your dps at ALL. Its just not a good design. It isn't. Like I said they could even nerf Heavy shot and move more of the net damage into Straighter shot, then:
-Straighter shot would always be beneficial.
-Reactive gameplay would be better.
-It would make playing Bard a little less easy or at least a little less forgiving (increased by how much of the damage is put into straighter shot)

We're talking about good design overall, not just how much dps is being pushed around. There's nothing fun or good designed about wondering if playing well is going to lower or benefit your dps this next shot. REGARDLESS of the net of it.

[Furious]

It's not unreasonable to expect reactive play to always be a good thing... Its all about how they weigh the numbers, read the post right before this one I'm quoting. There's nothing fun about reactive play that has a 10-40% chance (depending on buffs at the time) to slow your dps at ALL. Its just not a good design. It isn't. Like I said they could even nerf Heavy shot and move more of the net damage into Straighter shot, then:
-Straighter shot would always be beneficial.
-Reactive gameplay would be better.
-It would make playing Bard a little less easy or at least a little less forgiving (increased by how much of the damage is put into straighter shot)

We're talking about good design overall, not just how much dps is being pushed around. There's nothing fun or good designed about wondering if playing well is going to lower or benefit your dps this next shot. REGARDLESS of the net of it.

You are talking entirely subjectively. There is nothing wrong with the current design; it is always going to be a net increase in dps in any realistic situation, which means that you should be doing it. Stop wondering if you are making the right choice "for the next shot", since you KNOW that you are making the right choice for your dps.

There is nothing wrong with some short term volatility in a rotation.