FFXIV: ARR becoming TORtanic

[Larkin]

No PvP on launch? So what? XI/XIV was always designed as a through and through PvE game.

I don't understand why people still don't get this.

[busta]

Crafting in this game is incredibly fun. You obviously haven't spent much time doing it. It's way more complex than the battle system and is incredibly rewarding. I've made countless gil while doing this.

Monsters drop stuff that's worthless to you and worth plenty to other people.

Making gil in this game is super easy. It's not the fault of the game that you're lazy and have no imagination.

Teleportation and repair fees are dirt cheap. And there are MANY alternatives to teleports. Quit being lazy.

No server transfers is not a huge deal. I don't know many other MMOs that have this ready on launch either.

[CSX]

Seriously, with the way things are progressing. . . ./charlimit

Just leave man. . .Why do you people feel the need to come on the forums and complain about how much a game sucks when all you have to do is leave. I read somewhere people talking about TERA having more content, um. . .No. . .Tera had B.Temple and Kaprima for a year then it had just 1 dungeon for 2yrs, now it has some PVP junk but it took atleast 3yrs+ to add content and 6months+ in between to patch in stupid fixes to the NA client.

Another 15+ page thread of WhiteKnights vs filthy keyboard commando basement dwellers that obviously have nothing better to do then to sit here and complain about how much a game sucks but somehow still sit there dwelling in that basement playing it. GG

[Ariyn]

I can name you a myriad of mmos: Ragnarok Online, Rising Force Online, Tera Online and a dozen more Korean mmos


The White Knights are already defending their masters I see

You know I was kind of sympathetic to your post until this. Tera didn't have shit to do at end game at launch. I was completely done with everything within 3 weeks. They didn't even have the nexus in which was the ONLY raid of any kind and it was open world so equal to Odin and Bahamut here. That came a month after release.

RO, seriously RO? That was a very long time ago and I can assure you they didn't have end game content at launch either. The only reason that one didn't matter as much was because it took for ever to get to the end game so they had time to launch more.

The others don't even matter ...

Bottom line is that no MMO ever has launched and kept the interest of every hardcore player out there. People will always clear all of the content faster then intended. As for you, how about you go lvl jobs for your cross class skills, finish relic and DL, and then take on coil. Because I'm sure you haven't completed that since no one has.

The game does have issues but not 1 thing you said are any of the issues it has. Call me a "white knight" or w/e you want but in reality these problems are only yours.

[Straiya]

Or do you want the ultimate uber-sword of slaying from a random bunny mob?

Where do I sign up?

[Conkers]

snip

I didn't mention beating WoW, they are flops because they shed customers by the boatload, are unable to sustain even the minimum numbers to keep on their sub model, and basically fail at their core design of long term play. And no being profitable does not negate being a flop, e.g - someone releases a song, it sells 150 downloads, it makes a "profit", guess what that is a flop.

As for LOTRO, they didn't make more profit than at release, they made 3 times more revenue (not profit) than they were making at tail end of their failed sub model, not than what they were making when the population was still healthy. Since then LOTRO has only gone downhill further, with layoffs and the pop is now nearly back to what it was at end end of sub, just with much less revenue.

P.S - Yes EQ, DAoC, Utlima, etc did well, I mean since WoW and the playerbase has gone to pot, along with the game design that tries to accommodate the terrible playerbase.

[Chrysania]

No, nor would I want it to be. If I wanted to play a single player game, I’d go play a single player game. There are very different dynamics in play between single and multiplier games, much less MMOs. To judge a multiplier/MMO game on single player game metrics IMO is a terribly biased way of looking at things.

Because I'm here to be an objective consumer (said nobody ever). Think I care if its biased? Think I'm here to be fair? I'll compare it to opening boxes of cracker jacks if I dang well please. There is no such thing as an objective metric on what makes a good game anyway.

There are, however, games that entertain me (subjective). There are ways to identify amazing games that clearly do well, and one can identify correlatives and even causatives between certain characteristics and that (chiefly financial) success.

FOR ME (subjective), its a very important question; would I play this if it were a single player game?

There are no objective questions to ask.

Beyond the obviously different experience the two are designed for, there is a social and persistence component that simply doesn’t exist in single player games, and for many people that’s what makes the MMO experience for them. For example, as much as I loved playing Tales of Xillia, I would not give it more than one play-through. Even my all-time favorites of FFT, VC, Xenogears etc, I would be hard-pressed to give them more than a few runs.

Yeah, I like the social aspect as well. However, the social aspect is 100% irrelevant to whether or not the game itself is crap, or is not.
Do you have wonderful people to play with? Maybe so! Maybe that makes your experience joyful. Does the game suck?

'Well, I have all these amazing people--" BZZT, irrelevant. DOES. THE GAME. SUCK? 'Well, but my friends are--" BZZT. Irrelevant.

Does. The game. Suck? Its you vs the game. Is it fun to play? 'Well I can't answer that if I can't factor for all my friends being there'

So all you really want is a chatroom? Why are you and your friends here, playing this game and not some other game? The game must not suck, yet there's very little I can see that is anything more than mediocre.

'Well, ok, A is boring and B is a grind, but if you have friends, you can--' BZZT, I don't care about your friends and I don't want to hear about how they make a sucky game tolerable; I get it, you enjoy hanging out with your friends and would like to do things with them, even if those things are retarded.

Does. The game. Suck?

If you think yes, why?

If you think no, why?

On the other hand, MMOs like Eve Online? It’s a game I would not enjoy playing it if it was a single player game - something like the X3 series, and I find myself getting bored incredibly fast in those. Yet I have immensely enjoyed my 7+ years in Eve, nor do I see myself ever quitting that game until the day it shuts down. The social aspect of the game and the persistent nature of the world turn what would’ve been a meaningless action in a single player game to something that actually matters in the online world – when I blow a ship up, it’s no longer just some pixels and numbers on my own PC, it’s someone else’s prized pixels and numbers

So the game sucks, but you like hanging out with your friends and only perceive meaning in your in-game actions if someone else acknowledges them, chiefly by suffering? Sanctioned sociopathy. /thumbsup.jpg

In some ways this is also seen in brutal sandboxes like Eve vs theme parks like ARR and WoW, we often get risk-averse players coming in Eve wondering why there isn’t guaranteed safety in high security space, to them the idea that one can be destroyed anytime, anywhere if someone else wanted to bad enough to be terrible. To us however, that makes the action you take in game actually meaningful, as you actually have something worthwhile on the line in a fight. IMO, you seem to be even further down on the scale.

Most of those people probably wanted a neat game in space to play and instead found crazy sociopaths and a game that sucks if you have no friends to distract you from the game being boring as banging two rocks together.

That is purely a matter of opinion, not objective fact. I’d rather play minesweeper than WoW.

WoW proves itself to be a good game to play along many objective metrics. Here's one; it lost more players than FFXIV has ever had or (almost certainly) will ever have and STILL has close to ten million active subs. Hallmark of a bad game? Must be. /bizarrelogic.jpg

To me it just sounds like what you really want is a single player game with online components, rather than an actual MMO. That’s fine, but frankly IMO you’re looking at the wrong genre if that’s the type of game you’re looking for.

Bzzt, you have guessed poorly. I like MMO's in general. Gear treadmills, I despise because its the rat everyone keeps boiling for the increasingly watery stew that nobody was honestly enjoying in the first place. Increasing numbers of people are admitting that the treadmills themselves are not fun and the whole appeal is to get that sense of completion/satisfaction/achievement/e-peen bragging rights when they finally make it.

Unfortunately for the MMO industry, its so easy to do gear treadmills that virtually everyone has done it absolutely to death, and even the most monosyllabic mental midget that has difficulty outwitting fenceposts are getting sick and tired of them.

I have single player games. I have a whole backlog I have to get around to playing still, and that's grand. I also like replaying the classics.

Online components in single player? Ehh, that didn't work out so well with Fable 3. Nice gimmick, ultimately pointless. Nah. I like my single player games the way I like my ice cream; not with your (ubiquitous, non-specific 'your') face anywhere near it.

Multiplayer? I'd do somewhat absurd things and spend obscene sums of money for the ability to have multiplayer in Skyrim, yes. But Bethesda is also insanely stupid and can't possibly give us multiplayer Elder Scrolls.

And then there are these Final Fantasy MMO's that seem to have nothing to do with any final fantasy game ever. Tiny pieces of a fun game have been shotgun sprayed into this ball of grind, and I'd like to play that fun game. However, even if you take all the pieces, subtract the grind and put them together in order, you don't have a fun game.

But you are right on one point; I'm looking in the wrong genre for what I want.

Because what I want is simple: I'd like to play a good Final Fantasy MMO. That sort of thing, sadly, does not exist.

Its funny though. You speak as though there's a certain lockstepped form that an MMO must take to be an MMO. The only requirement is that it be massively multi-player.

'Suck' is not required. It'll be amazing when some developing studio figures out that their game doesn't have to be sucky, painful and generally an exercise in balancing frustrations to play in order to be an MMO.

Today is clearly not that day.

[Eekiki]

I write this post in a larger font size. That makes what I'm saying more true.

Even back in the before times, when there was nothing to do except level to 20 and spam Tam-Tara, I was still finding so much to do.

If you can't find anything to do in this game, you aren't looking hard enough.

You're on Balmung though, there's ALWAYS fun to be had on Balmung

'struth. ^_^

[madolyn]

all these people who expected so much more are disappointed. no surprise.

From a 1.0 players perspective, this game has a lot more to offer than it did in 1.0. The issue is that the vast majority of players continued to play in 1.0 for their friends and community. Hamlets, speed runs, and ifrit extreme were pretty much all there was to do...Now the typical MMO gamer who hops to the next big thing and has the attention span of a three year old has shown up, proclaims they have beaten the game and proceeds to say how bad it is.

Go ahead and be a naysayer and say the game will fail or is failing because of this or that. In the end, a large majority of 1.0 players will continue to play ARR and enjoy it...some of us were already fine with paying a monthly fee back then anyway.

[Meleoffs]

This thread is still going? All the points in it have been made and addressed and everyone arguing for OP clearly can't read or has a different problem with the game.