Does Anyone Think Crafting is Too Slow?

[Rentahamster]

and it would all be valid, because even if i made a great game, it would limit people who just want to make armor for thier charachter.

How would this limit people? If they want to make armor, they play the game to skill up. If the game is fun to play, they will enjoy doing so. If you can get the exact same SP/hour doing a game that is actually fun as you can with the current system, what's the downside?

[darkstarpoet1]

How would this limit people? If they want to make armor, they play the game to skill up. If the game is fun to play, they will enjoy doing so. If you can get the exact same SP/hour doing a game that is actually fun as you can with the current system, what's the downside?

how is the way it is set now limiting you anymore than the new way would limit them? that is not what they want therefore it's no different than the system as it is now is not what you want. you want to take the system and make it what you want and say you don't care what they want. crafting is meant to be a chore to do. it's meant to be a class that you can level and complete the game as. if you make crafting too easy or fast you will have the crafters completing the game, making more money, having better gear faster than you will as a battle class.

[Rentahamster]

how is the way it is set now limiting you anymore than the new way would limit them?

I never said it was limiting. I said it wasn't fun, it was mindless, and it is too easy to create an automatic botting program to do it.

you want to take the system and make it what you want and say you don't care what they want.

No, I want to take the crafting system we have now and fix it so that we can retain the positive aspects about it while removing/improving the negative aspects.

crafting is meant to be a chore to do.

Is it too much to ask that this chore be made to be fun to do? I say no.

if you make crafting too easy or fast you will have the crafters completing the game, making more money, having better gear faster than you will as a battle class.

So then tweak the SP gained so that the players rank up at an appropriate pace, as per what I said about normalized SP/hour vs crafting actions done.

it might be fun to you or me, but to some they would may hate it, they also might have complaints like it isnt immersive, i might enjoy a mini game that revolves around chess, but many would hate it.

"might" have complaints that it isn't immersive? What's so immersive about what we have now? What's so immersive about pressing "normal synth" a bajillion times in a row? Are these hypothetical complaints somehow more important that the REAL and ACTUAL complaints people have now about the crafting system?

And what does chess have to do with crafting?

like the shooting gallery, or a beat sim game or any of the million types of games that are generally fun, but that would alienate all the people who dont find them fun/arent good at those type of games, and the people who would say that doing something besides hammering a peice of metal repeatedly isnt what blacksmithing should be about.

Again, hypotheticals. What about all the people who are alienated RIGHT NOW because of this terrible excuse for gameplay.

[Physic]

I never said it was limiting. I said it wasn't fun, it was mindless, and it is too easy to create an automatic botting program to do it.


No, I want to take the crafting system we have now and fix it so that we can retain the positive aspects about it while removing/improving the negative aspects.



Is it too much to ask that this chore be made to be fun to do? I say no.




So then tweak the SP gained so that the players rank up at an appropriate pace, as per what I said about normalized SP/hour vs crafting actions done.




"might" have complaints that it isn't immersive? What's so immersive about what we have now? What's so immersive about pressing "normal synth" a bajillion times in a row? Are these hypothetical complaints somehow more important that the REAL and ACTUAL complaints people have now about the crafting system?

And what does chess have to do with crafting?



Again, hypotheticals. What about all the people who are alienated RIGHT NOW because of this terrible excuse for gameplay.

So do you have a concept for a more fun crafting system that you think the majority of people will enjoy?

[darkstarpoet1]

So do you have a concept for a more fun crafting system that you think the majority of people will enjoy?

no they don't they just want it changed so they can get everything handed to them without working for it. if you work in any skill trade at all you realize that most of training is repetative in nature and you do it for years before you fully learn your trade.

how does a carpenter learn their trade in real life? they drive millions of nails, they cut thousands of boards, and read thousands of blueprints. how does a carpenter not learn their trade? by playing games when they should be learning.

[Rentahamster]

So do you have a concept for a more fun crafting system that you think the majority of people will enjoy?

Not really, I haven't though about that issue as much as others. I do know what I want the system to achieve, however, as I stated before: fun, engaging, difficult, rewarding, logical character progression, logical recipe progression, less redundant item utilization, streamlined, easily accessible/deep and complex at higher levels.

no they don't they just want it changed so they can get everything handed to them without working for it.

I still don't know why you insist on making this claim when I have said repeatedly that I don't want everything handed to me. If anything, I want the system to be harder than it is now. The main point of any change to the crafting system is that it would be more fun to do than it is currently, and that it won't be so susceptible to botting.

how does a carpenter learn their trade in real life? they drive millions of nails, they cut thousands of boards, and read thousands of blueprints. how does a carpenter not learn their trade? by playing games when they should be learning.

This is a game, not real life. Games are fun, first and foremost. We play games to escape real life.

[darkstarpoet1]

I still don't know why you insist on making this claim when I have said repeatedly that I don't want everything handed to me. If anything, I want the system to be harder than it is now. The main point of any change to the crafting system is that it would be more fun to do than it is currently, and that it won't be so susceptible to botting.

i said they not you. there is a whole different scenario between the 2. i agreed earlier in this same thread that i would like it to be more fun, but that using the people won't bot excuse holds no water. the people botting are botting not because it is boring, but because they want to get to max rank as fast as possible. unless you made it level so fast that you could level faster than a botter then the same people that bot now will continue to bot regardless of the fun factor.

sure i want to go out and kill dodo's to learn how to craft a shirt. i didn't say i wouldn't like a different type of crafting, but they'd have to think before they changed it to something completely different that what a craft truly is.

[Rentahamster]

i said they not you. there is a whole different scenario between the 2.

You direct quoted Physic, who was direct quoting me, therefore including myself in the reference to "they".

using the people won't bot excuse holds no water. the people botting are botting not because it is boring, but because they want to get to max rank as fast as possible.

Indeed people want to bot to get to max rank with little effort, that's always the case. What I am concerned with, is the fact that it is so easy to program a bot to do this. All you have to do is basically program your third party botting program to just keep pressing "enter" over and over again.

If the crafting process took some actual strategy and thought to complete successfully, then it would be much more difficult to program a bot to replicate those functions.

[Physic]

How would this limit people? If they want to make armor, they play the game to skill up. If the game is fun to play, they will enjoy doing so. If you can get the exact same SP/hour doing a game that is actually fun as you can with the current system, what's the downside?

it might be fun to you or me, but to some they would may hate it, they also might have complaints like it isnt immersive, i might enjoy a mini game that revolves around chess, but many would hate it.

Im not saying they shouldnt try, im just saying what goes on in their head when they create a sort of simulation battle game out of crafting, but with none of the cool skills and effects. Its basically a battle sim with quality thrown in there,
your progress is your damage against the opponent, your durability is your hp, your skills increase your accuracy/defense you can use gear to boost your stats, thats what we have right now, basically a pen and paper rp roll game for crafting, probably because all of the people who play this game are used to that type of mini game. I nean they could have made it

like the shooting gallery, or a beat sim game or any of the million types of games that are generally fun, but that would alienate all the people who dont find them fun/arent good at those type of games, and the people who would say that doing something besides hammering a peice of metal repeatedly isnt what blacksmithing should be about.

thats why i said they would need to have two options, because they are going to try to make a process that isnt that foreign to what mmo players are used to/isnt that crazy. i really think the only way people would get behind specific mini games for each craft is if they had the option to do the basic old school craft, with basic non reaction/high challenge gameplay.