The Monk Temple

[kukurumei]

Don't clip your dots early. Also Demolish and Snap punch both cost 50. Demo always should be prioritized over Snap punch when demolish is not on the boss.

Actually the opposite is true. Snap should always be prioritized over Demolish.

1: Invulnerability. Many bosses will have times that will wipe out their dot, or do no damage. Your 1bizillion Ifrit, garuda and of course CM runs are notorious for those.

2: Animation. If you're on stun duty, Demolish is an even bigger no no.

3: Snap is position specific, while demolish is not, therefore, anytime you loose position, you can rotate in demolish as a substitute.

4: Blood bathing, off gcd, etc. Your demolish animation will just slow everything down when you need to rotate in those skills.

Snap is a better in the long run until you get the fight down to a memorization level. When you can narrow down the damage windows, demolish will shine, but more often then not, you're just going to loose out.

[Valsh]

Actually the opposite is true. Snap should always be prioritized over Demolish.

Snap is a better in the long run until you get the fight down to a memorization level. When you can narrow down the damage windows, demolish will shine, but more often then not, you're just going to loose out.

If you have to put in situational scenarios as to why it shouldn't be used how can you say "Snap should always be prioritized over Demolish". Demolish is at least 42 potency stronger, it should always be kept up if you know that you won't lose any ticks which just requires basic fight knowledge.

There are few times when I will purposefully hold back on using Demolish, off the top of my head they are:

Ifrit will jump off screen in the next 18 seconds(you can just not demolish towards the end of his plume rotation)
Garuda will become invulnerable(happens once the entire fight, when she goes into the hard mode segment)
Titan will jump off screen(happens 3 times)

[kukurumei]

If you have to put in situational scenarios as to why it shouldn't be used how can you say "Snap should always be prioritized over Demolish". Demolish is at least 42 potency stronger, it should always be kept up if you know that you won't lose any ticks which just requires basic fight knowledge.

That's lead to over optimization, that leads to complications.

Again in a fight:I rather someone do
70% beginning 70% mid phase 60% end phase
then
100% beginning 70% mid phase 40% end phase

Because you are not producing in the clutch.

Your job is to win, not put up a bigger e-pee. Mnks are highly manual and that's why they fall off a cliff when they pull these kind of things.

There's such a thing as trying too hard, and mnks get hurt the most when they attempt it. I rather have a person watch the fight, then mentally counting down their demolish and tod Dot timer on their screen.

[Valsh]

That's lead to over optimization, that leads to complications.

Again in a fight:I rather someone do
70% beginning 70% mid phase 60% end phase
then
100% beginning 70% mid phase 40% end phase

Because you are not producing in the clutch.

Your job is to win, not put up a bigger e-pee. Mnks are highly manual and that's why they fall off a cliff when they pull these kind of things.

There's such a thing as trying too hard, and mnks get hurt the most when they attempt it.

Oh come on, it's not hard to use demolish properly. Arguing that it's too complex is silly, might as well just spam bootshine from rear because moving to the flank is more "complexity". The job is designed as such that you should be utilizing most your skills and naturally that will come with having to think a bit more.

[kukurumei]

Oh come on, it's not hard to use demolish properly. Arguing that it's too complex is silly, might as well just spam bootshine from rear because moving to the flank is more "complexity". The job is designed as such that you should be utilizing most your skills and naturally that will come with having to think a bit more.

It's easy when you don't have crap going on. You're just armchairing.

At the last phase, you are moving, waiting for signs, watching hp bars, Demolish is no longer ever other rotation, just like internal isn't spam on demand, just like you're not 100% next to the enemy. Sometimes you gotta wait, sometimes you're stuck on twin, running back to the enemy, sometimes it'll get reset, sometimes your DK buff is down, etc.

If I turn your head and poke you randomly every 5-20 seconds, I bet you can't remember your rotation and demolish timing either. And if I clock your parser at >50%, I bet you would drop like a rock as well.

You're not fighting a training dummy here. Every second you have to glance at your enemy's debuff bar, is a second you're not watching the fight.

If it you're pro enough on a fight to do all that, then your dps wouldn't matter, because it's just another run.

Throwing a demolish every so often, is much better then keeping it in rotation. Until you can sleep through the fight.

edit: speaking of bootshine. I find that mnk who boot at lvl50 average much less then just DK-ing. That's because the extra 1 second to position themselves, rather then firing off, slowly extends in a fight when stuff starts going crazy. The mental pause to get rear, goes from 1 second to 2 second to 3 second, etc.

[Ephier]

I don't know why that one second would cause you a dps loss if you move during animations. Like during demolishes long animation, I just move myself to the rear and bootshine and scoot back. The space between the rear and flank is not as big as people seem to make it out to be. The empty space is the rear and the second you touch one of the red half circles you are on the flank. You can easily position yourself to swap between the two with 0 dps loss. Unless by some magic I don't know about you can use a second skill during your GCD (and no I'm not talking about animation skipping because I do that).

[kukurumei]

you should be switching between demolish and snap punch.
Put up demolish first for the dot. then use snap punch the next time since demloish is already running, and then by the time you get your next couerl form demolish will need to be refreshed as its about to fall off.
You snap punch when demolish is already up, or if you know the thing you're attacking is going to die or something soon and know that demolish wont have enough ramp time.

Because it's not a training dummy and your rotations gets fragmented in a fight.

the boss is not nice enough to say "oh you finish your rotation, i'll do my thing"

The last phase of a boss battle, there is a high amounts of fragmentation, which breaks down your internal clock

it is much simpler to dk-twin-snap all the time, and then throw in a demolish on a whim then keeping demolish up.

Shouldn't you be able to do 100% beginning, 70% mid and 60% end. Using your numbers anyway. If you can't produce in a clutch there's no reason to not to produce when you can.
Valsh was just saying that always is a strong word.
The combat is enough that you can adapt depending on the situation, so yea can follow an easier "rotation" if your buffs are going to fall off and boss uptime is low.

If we just called it a a priority system, no one would even think twice about this. But we have to do it in cycles so everyone's hung up on considering it a rotation.

Well yes theoretically you should be doing 100% at the beginning, but there is such a thing as muscle training or worse, macros, and the more you try to train a complicated system, the more it'll fail you when goes irregular.

But yes, a priority system is best described. Heck drgs rotations of death, the first thing they must learn is to straighten out their priorities. NO boss is ever going to let you do your rotation of 20+ skills.

Reason I said, snap before demolish.

On the learning and journeyman stage of the battle, just dk-twin-snap will do woooonders for your battle. Spam all the IR you want, the bfb you want, the dodging you want.

[Allyrion]

That's lead to over optimization, that leads to complications.

Again in a fight:I rather someone do
70% beginning 70% mid phase 60% end phase
then
100% beginning 70% mid phase 40% end phase

Shouldn't you be able to do 100% beginning, 70% mid and 60% end. Using your numbers anyway. If you can't produce in a clutch there's no reason to not to produce when you can.
Valsh was just saying that always is a strong word.
The combat is enough that you can adapt depending on the situation, so yea can follow an easier "rotation" if your buffs are going to fall off and boss uptime is low.

If we just called it a a priority system, no one would even think twice about this. But we have to do it in cycles so everyone's hung up on considering it a rotation.