Warriors - How to fix our damage mitigation

[HiirNoivl]

Parry won't do anything for Mitigation in the real stuff.

If you want to help WARs get to coil then they need to have Sentinel or something so that they can go easy mode like PLD and not have to rely so much on doing damage and self heals.

But it just goes against the way the class is supposed to be played though. You're supposed to mitigate damage by healing yourself and killing the mob faster. So far that I've seen in Coil, damage goes up the longer the thing is alive.

I have full faith that WAR can tank and efficiently kill just about anything in the hands of a player who understands it's strengths and weaknesses and in a party that understands how their own classes can mitigate damage for the tank and how to maximize their own DPS.

There will be changes to WAR and maybe we'll get Rampart or Sentinel or something. But in the end that one fix isn't suddenly going to make WAR easy mode. You will have to learn to max damage and you will have to learn to max Self heal.

[Amayasu]

Parry won't do anything for Mitigation in the real stuff.

If you want to help WARs get to coil then they need to have Sentinel or something so that they can go easy mode like PLD and not have to rely so much on doing damage and self heals.

But it just goes against the way the class is supposed to be played though. You're supposed to mitigate damage by healing yourself and killing the mob faster. So far that I've seen in Coil, damage goes up the longer the thing is alive.

I have full faith that WAR can tank and efficiently kill just about anything in the hands of a player who understands it's strengths and weaknesses and in a party that understands how their own classes can mitigate damage for the tank and how to maximize their own DPS.

I'll just wait for you guys to just catch up to me. There will be changes to WAR and maybe we'll get Rampart or Sentinel or something. But in the end that one fix isn't suddenly going to make WAR easy mode. You will have to learn to max damage and you will have to learn to max Self heal.

With respect, you can't have sentinel. You need something uniquely Warrior. What if a trait provided an absorb shield when you overheal yourself for the amount you healed. Sure, it's RNG, but so is blocking. Or a defensive cooldown that restored your HP to 70% if an attack kills you in the next 5 seconds. Or... etc etc. Just clamouring for one ability from PLD isn't going to kill Warriors. Surely these things fit in with the playstyle, and give you tools. Just saying "Gief sentinel" doesn't work. Rampart is small enough to smooth out damage if you need it, it would be cool if that was cross-class. Parry is a mechanic that gives you block-like mechanics, so it would fit the Warrior flavour to parry a little more.

[HiirNoivl]

With respect, you can't have sentinel. You need something uniquely Warrior. What if a trait provided an absorb shield when you overheal yourself for the amount you healed. Sure, it's RNG, but so is blocking. Or a defensive cooldown that restored your HP to 70% if an attack kills you in the next 5 seconds. Or... etc etc. Just clamouring for one ability from PLD isn't going to kill Warriors. Surely these things fit in with the playstyle, and give you tools. Just saying "Gief sentinel" doesn't work. Rampart is small enough to smooth out damage if you need it, it would be cool if that was cross-class. Parry is a mechanic that gives you block-like mechanics, so it would fit the Warrior flavour to parry a little more.

I have Awareness... why not Sentinel?

Do you even cross class? I want my Foresight back. The one with the big Axe on the icon that PLD can use.

I swear I get into these discussions and I wonder if we're talking about the same game.

[Amayasu]

I have Awareness... why not Sentinel?

Do you even cross class?

I swear I get into these discussions and I wonder if we're talking about the same game.

There's no talking to you, is there?

I'm in favour of Warrior buffs. I'm against expanding the cross-class toolset to include massively powerful abilities - these are what work to make classes unique. There are many options for mechanics and abilities that would massively compliment the Warrior's core mechanics while feeling unique. You've ignored them in favour of reiterating that Sentinel is cool.

Would having Sentinel make all of your problems disappear?

[HiirNoivl]

There's no talking to you, is there?

I'm in favour of Warrior buffs. I'm against expanding the cross-class toolset to include massively powerful abilities - these are what work to make classes unique. There are many options for mechanics and abilities that would massively compliment the Warrior's core mechanics while feeling unique. You've ignored them in favour of reiterating that Sentinel is cool.

Would having Sentinel make all of your problems disappear?

I don't have any problems. >.>

I don't need Sentinel. I just would like WARs to stop whining about not having Damage mitigation like PLD and start mitigating damage like WAR.

Let go of Wrath V, you're not going to die.

Let go of huge pools of HP. You're not going to die.

[Zanther]

I don't have any problems. >.>

I don't need Sentinel. I just would like WARs to stop whining about not having Damage mitigation like PLD and start mitigating damage like WAR.

Let go of Wrath V, you're not going to die.

Let go of huge pools of HP. You're not going to die.

You totally dont have a problem.

Except the kill shots on your FC page include 2 paladin tanks.

My point is again proven.

[HiirNoivl]

You totally dont have a problem.

Except the kill shots on your FC page include 2 paladin tanks.

My point is again proven.

Your point is???

The fact is that FCs do have MT WARs in Coil.

[Duelle]

Parry won't do anything for Mitigation in the real stuff.

Depends. Parries currently can only be done from the front. You could make parries omnidirectional for WAR through a trait or a unique mechanic introduced through the WAR soul crystal (derplander the WAR parried an attack coming from behind in the intro movie, by the way). There's also the matter of parry threshold (AKA the amount of damage parries mitigate) relative to parry proc rate. You could increase overall mitigation by increasing chances of parry procs while tuning the parry threshold to be in balance with PLD (factoring other stuff like WAR's higher HP and self heals).

If you want to help WARs get to coil then they need to have Sentinel or something so that they can go easy mode like PLD and not have to rely so much on doing damage and self heals.

Using the asinine "skill" argument is the wrong way to go about it. WAR can and should have exclusive mechanics that set it apart from the other members of the tank pool, but the key thing to remember is that it's a tank and there should be a boilerplate for tank design. I mentioned earlier in this thread that a baseline tank (regardless of name and weapon choice) should have a certain amount of mitigation baseline, with unique class mechanics working in tandem with that baseline mitigation to make the tank fuctional and viable in content.

I have full faith that WAR can tank and efficiently kill just about anything in the hands of a player who understands it's strengths and weaknesses and in a party that understands how their own classes can mitigate damage for the tank and how to maximize their own DPS.

As FFXI should have taught you, overt reliance on things outside of your own performance doesn't do much in the long run, and people will always flock for what is consistent and "easier". XI's skillchain system was intended to be complex in build-up with a large number of possibilities, yet the playerbase simplified it to "Distortion/Lv3 are the only skillchains in the game. If you open and close Distortion/Lv3 Light you're worthwhile, if you can't GTFO". Would you submit WAR to a similar fate for the sake of being 100% "unique"?

There will be changes to WAR and maybe we'll get Rampart or Sentinel or something. But in the end that one fix isn't suddenly going to make WAR easy mode. You will have to learn to max damage and you will have to learn to max Self heal.

My own take is sprinkle damage mitigation:

- On-demand damage shield (something similar to the blood shield mechanic but based on damage dealt by Inner Beast rather than damage self-healed)
- Add to Improved Foresight so that it is a straight out damage reduction cooldown for MRD/WAR only (have Improved Foresight turn Foresight into a -15% damage taken)
- Perhaps add a bit more mitigation from parries through a bigger parry threshold or increased parry procs
- Move the +healing to Defiance

There. MRD/WAR improvements that don't make it mechanically similar to PLD.