The current battle system mainly calculate everything from Your Rank vs Mob Rank

[Kurokikaze]

proof? proof? proof? proof?

LOL, they keep asking for a proof which they can figure out by themselves if they play the game

Need I remind you that... YOU started the thread.

[Evangela]

didn't you notice about how much you get stronger when you rank up? that's a proof

[Lerris]

didn't you notice about how much you get stronger when you rank up? that's a proof

It's proof that rank has a noticeable effect. Not proof that rank is the primary factor.

[Physic]

I dunno how gimp you want to be, but a jade crook+3 with 120 int and pie is not the same gear and stats as a jade crook and 80 int and pie.

What you just said is that 85 attack increases your damage by 10 points. Wow lol...in ffxi it took about 16 attack to do that.

Thanks for proving my point. Even if you ARE mining for fish and being completely stupid about your setup, it just doesnt' matter that much.

Lol you gain 85 attack points and your damage goes up by 10. If you didn't test a lame straw man setup, you'd see that anything over 80 attack is pretty much "good enough." If you gained a level, your damage would probably go up by 15.

incorrect in ffxi how much attack effected your damage had a lot to do with the mob at hand, and if you were at the extremes you saw much less results, ie
attacking a low level rabit, attack had no real value
attacking some super high level defense mob you needed a lot of attack before you started to see a difference. at level 75 with food, 1 boost was like 40 attack for me, and i can guarantee you it did very little in terms of upping my dmg versus tiamat or even demon NMs in xarcabard

and yeah doing twice your damage is never wack. if everyone is weak because of dlevel, doing gimp dmg, and i double my gimp dmg, i double my effectiveness gimp, or not gimp.
also when testing versus a mob around my level i also saw a huge jump in damage, from 50 to 100 per swing. this implies its not simply +10 its more like im getting a % better.
this means that yeah that level may get me 15 more damage, but 7 of that 15 is coming from my gear.

what does this mean? it means dlevel is lowering your effectiveness, but your gear still makes you noticeably more effective.
when your gear doesnt make you noticeably more effective, its probably a special trait or ability of the monster.

for example the monsters defense is too low, so my attack is irrelevant, or it is too high, so my attack is just a drop in the bucket.
to illustrate
if they were using a simple subtraction system

1000 defense -85 attack 915 defense left over. i barely dented it
1000 defense 5 attack 995 defense left over i still barely dented it

really low defense
5 defense 85 attack, i totally overcame his defense allowing for my maximum damage
5 defense 5 attack i totally overcame his defense allowing for my maximum damage.

now look at a skill which ignores defense.
wow i get full damage no matter wait i own NMS! wait sounds exactly like spirits within and bio. the skills that ignore defense win because they ignore defense. even when the dlevel is not an issue. even if they remove dlevel this will continue to be the case, even when you are level 65 the thaum will still own your damage with a skill that ignores defense on any high defense mob, even if your 10 levels higher than you were

the fact is the NM you are fighting is a special case, he has special stats which your stats arent effecting, blame the NM designer, the NM is cheesy bastard, dlevel may have its faults, but it doesnt explain this

[Rentahamster]

It's proof that rank has a noticeable effect. Not proof that rank is the primary factor.

Take two players, one at rank 45, the other at rank 50. Give them the same exact stats and gear. You'll see a big difference.

[Peregrine]

Take two players, one at rank 45, the other at rank 50. Give them the same exact stats and gear. You'll see a big difference.

At this pont, rent...do you really think that?
They won't see a damn thing lol...

[Kurokikaze]

Take two players, one at rank 45, the other at rank 50. Give them the same exact stats and gear. You'll see a big difference.

Exactly. And this is the only MMO you can actually make that test on and it being completely valid... Why? Because rank doesn't determine your stats. Take off all your armor, use the same weapon, lower your stats down to basic starter stats, and compare yourself to someone of the same race (because you wouldn't want that omg 1 stat difference to skewer your results) and check for yourself.

Go ahead and try what Rentahamster suggested and you'll see the difference.

If DLVL or DRNK wasn't as big a factor as we tell you it is then the following will happen:

No damage difference.

But we know thats not the case.

[Physic]

Take two players, one at rank 45, the other at rank 50. Give them the same exact stats and gear. You'll see a big difference.

dlevel effects fights, noticeably so, but is it the only factor? is it to large a factor? in games made without dlevel they simply scale stats to accomodate, in fact this game is in reality one of the more forgiving in terms of how survivable you are versus high level monsters not many games where you when fighting a monster that is 20 levels higher than you, that you stand a chance.
normally a game would just make level 1 weapon = 1 dmg and level 100 weapon =1000 damage.

the point of the above, is no one is mad that mobs 20 levels higher than them can kick thier ass, or that someone 5 levels higher than them take less damage and deal more, they are mad that their percieved stats arent as effective as they want them to be.
that doesnt have much to do with dlevel.


I have already found with data, that gear choice effects your damage. i have found that this effect extends to fighting things up 28 levels higher.
if you are noticing no gain in damage when fighting anything from 1-28 levels higher than you, you can be sure that is not caused by dlevel.

If you just want stats to be the only factor, they can do that, but they will just distribute dlevel into the stats of mobs and players so it has a similar effect, and in the end it will just mean you will need even higher numbers to see a difference, and in all likely hood the game will either be unplayable without the latest gear at all times (if they distribute the level differences into gear) or you will need really large number bonuses to see any effect from gear (if they distribute the stats directly to the player)

but at the end of the day, until you have real equations, it is impossible to see what is really going on.

[Kurokikaze]

dlevel effects fights, noticeably so, but is it the only factor? is it to large a factor?

THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR 10 FUCKING PAGES.

Lemme spell it out.

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[Rentahamster]

dlevel effects fights, noticeably so, but is it the only factor? is it to large a factor?

No one said it's the only factor. We've been saying it's a large factor. Too large. Waaaaay too large.

It's so overwhelmingly large that it marginalizes the hard work put into getting better gear and maximizing your stats. It decreases the value of items, which also impacts the economy.