The current battle system mainly calculate everything from Your Rank vs Mob Rank

[Physic]

I agree, and testing at the floor and the max only gives you two points of data, which gives you very little information about a formula, 2 points is a line, the graph is most likely way more complex than a line.

I can tell you right now, without tests on monsters inbewteen no one would have ever understood FFXIs formula, that involved str vs vit, attack vs defense level vs level dmg of weapon, weapon rank, and sometimes coeffecients, and range all thrown in there. and that was just for regular attacks.

[Rydin]

The reason different weapons do the same damage on NM's is because there is a modifier and a cap on Str vs Vit AND ATT vs DEF

An extreme example of this is if you fought a MOB with 999 defense and another with 9999 defense
if the max ATT/DEF difference is 500 (Arbitrary number just to demonstrate a point) then both MOBs will take the same damage from weapons with Attack 1 all the way to a weapon with attack 499

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ken-Unbalanced

Some interesting tests here have led to 2 theories...
The first of which we have all come to believe... Attributes do very little

The other more interesting theory is in many cases, a cap is exceeded, and therefore, any additional attribute points, and conversely, any additional damage is null

For instance, in FFXI, Str - Vit gave a value, that could not exceed a cap set by the weapon rank
And that number was then used to find the actual +bonus/-penalty that was added to your base damage

One of the problems in this thread is everyone is screaming "Hard data, Hard data" which is correct, hard data should be present, but every good scientist does some interpreting of the data which leads to a new hypothesis
Thats the Scientific method, and there is nothing wrong with sharing a hypothesis on a forum.
For instance, from the gathered data, I believe rank indirectly affects damage, which is why the devs didn't realize the formula was going to cause so many problems
Just like the HP and MP gained from attributes is capped by rank, so are the values for damage formulas capped by rank and (Delta)rank
So while Rank and (Delta)rank don't directly affect the damage, they do directly limit the values that go into the damage formula, therefore, it would have been much harder to see how these caps would factor in at higher levels.
Not impossible, mind you... Just a little more foresight was needed

I feel old saying this, but I can recall a time when attributes mattered too much
When conjurers with a lot less defense from gear as a gladiator would still take the same amount of damage if their VIT was comparable

The November patch changed this, and we noticed when we logged in that everyone's HP was lower and everyone was squishier
Grass raptors that we used to fight at R36 were owning us at R43. But some good did come from it... DEF became paramount in the fight against physical damage mitigation
So then Gladiators, Pugs and Marauders actually became physical tanks....

[Peregrine]

The reason different weapons do the same damage on NM's is because there is a modifier and a cap on Str vs Vit AND ATT vs DEF....

No lol. The reason different weapons do the same damage on NMs is because dLvl has capped how good you're allowed to be on said target. Fact.

Evidence: Gain one level. Keep the rest of your stats the same. You will see your cap go up, because your dlvl got better.

You're wrong. Your argument has been destroyed by facts about the game readily apparent.

dLvl dominates this game. Don't think so? You're simply wrong. It's not an opinion.

[Rentahamster]

People still don't believe that dlvl is overwhelmingly the majority factor in all damage and accuracy calculations? It's pretty obvious after playing this game for even a week.

[Rydin]

No lol. The reason different weapons do the same damage on NMs is because dLvl has capped how good you're allowed to be on said target. Fact.

Evidence: Gain one level. Keep the rest of your stats the same. You will see your cap go up, because your dlvl got better.

You're wrong. Your argument has been destroyed by facts about the game readily apparent.

dLvl dominates this game. Don't think so? You're simply wrong. It's not an opinion.

I didn't disagree... I said dlvl possibly just affects the cap on the damage values... not the actual damage itself...
Both of these are plausible and neither is proven by the data

[Peregrine]

People still don't believe that dlvl is overwhelmingly the majority factor in all damage and accuracy calculations? It's pretty obvious after playing this game for even a week.

I honestly can't even find the ANGLE and PITCH that someone who refuses the obvious is trying to get...what kind of ulterior motive they have for sticking their head so far in the sand. Usually people that far out there have ulterior reasons for being out there. They're neutral on botting because they bot. They want gathering materials to become more common because they're crafters, not gatherers.

But this...this has no angle. No scheme. It's just oblivious observation. Is that even a thing? It is now.

[Peregrine]

I didn't disagree... I said dlvl possibly just affects the cap on the damage values... not the actual damage itself...
Both of these are plausible and neither is proven by the data

How on earth did you not see my backhand to this response coming? Think before you post.
When your accuracy, attack, and primary stats are so easy to saturate, dlvl is the ONLY thing that affects actual damage. So yes, functionally, practically, for all you care dlvl DOES influence the actual damage itelf. In fact, it's the only thing tha tdoes influence it assuming you're not mining for fish around here.

What's your accuracy, att, str, and dex?
I don't care. If they're not STUPID, then LEVEL is the only thing that makes you what you are.

[Physic]

No lol. The reason different weapons do the same damage on NMs is because dLvl has capped how good you're allowed to be on said target. Fact.

Evidence: Gain one level. Keep the rest of your stats the same. You will see your cap go up, because your dlvl got better.

You're wrong. Your argument has been destroyed by facts about the game readily apparent.

dLvl dominates this game. Don't think so? You're simply wrong. It's not an opinion.

dlvl is a part of the equation, but it is not the only factor, or i would not see my dmg change attacking a mob 20 levels higher than me. If dlevel was the determining factor every mob that much higher would yeild the same results.

another test+
pug 42
vs level 70 gobbue
weathered hora 10-12 heavy strike
boarskin cesti 20-25

that essentially shows my weapon being twice as effective, this means if we were all fighting something 28 levels higher than us, my weapon is making me twice as effective at dps.
Im not questioning that dlevel matters, im saying gear still matters, if you have a situation where it doesnt, it has nothing to do with dlevel.

edit so in response to what peregrine is saying, basically since everyone has the same gear, and capped stats, only your level matters, but you are all the same level so nothing matters. doesnt sound like a problem with gear/stats, the probelm is you all have the same gear and stats.

exactly what does the dlevel have to be for me to see no difference and do you really think that the NMs are that level.

[Peregrine]

dlvl is a part of the equation, but it is not the only factor, or i would not see my dmg change attacking a mob 20 levels higher than me. If dlevel was the determining factor every mob that much higher would yeild the same results.

another test+
pug 42
vs level 70 gobbue
weathered hora 10-12 heavy strike
boarskin cesti 20-25

that essentially shows my weapon being twice as effective, this means if we were all fighting something 28 levels higher than us, my weapon is making me twice as effective at dps.
Im not questioning that dlevel matters, im saying gear still matters, if you have a situation where it doesnt, it has nothing to do with dlevel.

edit so in response to what peregrine is saying, basically since everyone has the same gear, and capped stats, only your level matters, but you are all the same level so nothing matters. doesnt sound like a problem with gear/stats, the probelm is you all have the same gear and stats.

I dunno how gimp you want to be, but a jade crook+3 with 120 int and pie is not the same gear and stats as a jade crook and 80 int and pie.

What you just said is that 85 attack increases your damage by 10 points. Wow lol...in ffxi it took about 16 attack to do that.

Thanks for proving my point. Even if you ARE mining for fish and being completely stupid about your setup, it just doesnt' matter that much.

Lol you gain 85 attack points and your damage goes up by 10. If you didn't test a lame straw man setup, you'd see that anything over 80 attack is pretty much "good enough." If you gained a level, your damage would probably go up by 15.

You basically just argued that if you're an idiot, something other than level actually makes a difference.
So....what about all the people who aren't idiots? What about real players?

Oh. That's right. Level's pretty much the only difference no matter what they equip. We all know that.

[Evangela]

proof? proof? proof? proof?

LOL, they keep asking for a proof which they can figure out by themselves if they play the game

especially now you have an ability to show mob ranks on their name

Sphene Doblyn at R56 and R58 has a lot of different