Let's talk about SP/EXP Chains!

[Duelle]

In one word: No.

The long version: Exp chains causes people to rush to get the most exp/hour. In FFXI this meant that anyone that caused downtime that would lead to breaking the chain was not wanted in a party. This is largely the culprit in turning casters like Black Mages into liabilities and Red Mages into refresh whores, so no thanks.

[Doho]

actually, i think pushover monsters (see all, colibris) are the culprit there. i remember a day when magic bursting was the bees knees and everybody and their mom wanted a black mage in the party.

[Duelle]

actually, i think pushover monsters (see all, colibris) are the culprit there. i remember a day when magic bursting was the bees knees and everybody and their mom wanted a black mage in the party.

When people grumbled at the fact the chain had to break because the magic users needed to rest for MP, which was slightly alleviated by Refresh and Ballad ticking away, at the cost of Red Mage turning into a refresh bot.

[tachikoma]

When you think that exp chains is going to force optimization of parties and pidgeonholing jobs you are correct but that will happen no matter the system. Right now we don't have chains but if you can find it adding arc's to your leve party or raptor party makes SP/hour go up ALOT. more arcs = more sp/hour. Adding in a chain bonus for speed kills on T/VT was the problem in FFXI, They could just as easily base chains not on speed but on meeting certain conditions. Like others have stated fighting mobs well over your lvl say 10+ could cause chain bonus. Now dunesfolk might be interesting on 4-5 stars since the mob lvl jumps up you could go for chains but the fights would be very though. Fix stats and add in special incaps and now I could see some fun fights even with our lol dunes that goes on every day over and over.

[Kurokikaze]

In one word: No.

The long version: Exp chains causes people to rush to get the most exp/hour. In FFXI this meant that anyone that caused downtime that would lead to breaking the chain was not wanted in a party. This is largely the culprit in turning casters like Black Mages into liabilities and Red Mages into refresh whores, so no thanks.

Rush to get the most exp/hour... Because that isn't the entire point of any grind party in this game or any game. Raptor parties totally wan't to take 1 minute to kill them instead of 10 seconds.

[Speeral]

When people grumbled at the fact the chain had to break because the magic users needed to rest for MP, which was slightly alleviated by Refresh and Ballad ticking away, at the cost of Red Mage turning into a refresh bot.

And then the player base goes off and complains that they have no role in the party . . . .

Let's get serious you pick a class/job/role/epeen mechanism for a reason . . . . to play that role in the party for a reason. RDM was always a refresh whore, and secondary healer. BRD BUFF whore. PLD/NIN tank, SAM was tp builder and ws specialist.

Grow a brain buddy every class has its specializations, that's how a party works.

Let's look at last night, I was exping with Doho

we had 1 conj 1mrd, 1lnc, 1pug ranks 30-32 doing efts

the conj had two roles healer and BR nuker. That was their job in the party to allow us to kill fast and effectively, they had a DEFINED ROLE something to do and a precise goal explode things and keep pt members alive.

I was tank and puller for our efts pt

our lnc was our tp guy who set up our mrd to close the melee portion of the br
I opened

WE HAD ROLES AND A SPECIFIC TARGET ACTION. that is how xi worked and this is how xiv works

Its comments like yours that really shows how backwards some players are when it comes to group activities.

RDM solo had different tools, for party it had its role, and in HNM it had its role as well. Yes if you wanted to participate you had to follow that, if you did otherwise you deserved being booted out of the party plain and simple.

Doho I like the thread and agree Sp chains would be amazing and would make sp grind parties more fun. Than again you and Gandolf doing stupid damage is amazing and all ha.

Did you see near the end last night when Gandolf popped that no profundity 1500 dmg thunder 2, that poor eft was nuked and toasty :P

[Duelle]

RDM was always a refresh whore, and secondary healer.

RDM was a poorly-designed generalist. Team Tanaka decided to invent the refresh niche because they couldn't be bothered to fix RDM nor make BRD more attractive to play. Players forced RDM into healing because FFXI had a horrible distribution of roles. Summoner was also a victim of this, sadly.

NIN tank

Player-created role that would have been nerfed within a week of being discovered under any normal, rational developer team that could take scope of what that would do to encounter design and overall class balance.

Its comments like yours that really shows how backwards some players are when it comes to group activities.

I wouldn't be so bothered by it had it been someone that actually had a history of being a support class. Like oracle or maybe scholar (which was eventually introduced much later). Instead it inexplicably fell on the guy with a sword in hand that happens to be able to cast magic. I'm just here to comment in hopes that crap does not repeat itself.

I also know what led certain classes down that road, and wish to avoid the mistakes of the past.

[northernsky]

In one word: No.

The long version: Exp chains causes people to rush to get the most exp/hour. In FFXI this meant that anyone that caused downtime that would lead to breaking the chain was not wanted in a party. This is largely the culprit in turning casters like Black Mages into liabilities and Red Mages into refresh whores, so no thanks.

Every party aims for best exp/hour regardless. What you do with expchains is adding goal oriented challenge to lower the tediousness of grinding

[northernsky]

RDM was a poorly-designed generalist. Team Tanaka decided to invent the refresh niche because they couldn't be bothered to fix RDM nor make BRD more attractive to play. Players forced RDM into healing because FFXI had a horrible distribution of roles. Summoner was also a victim of this, sadly.
Player-created role that would have been nerfed within a week of being discovered under any normal, rational developer team that could take scope of what that would do to encounter design and overall class balance.
I wouldn't be so bothered by it had it been someone that actually had a history of being a support class. Like oracle or maybe scholar (which was eventually introduced much later). Instead it inexplicably fell on the guy with a sword in hand that happens to be able to cast magic. I'm just here to comment in hopes that crap does not repeat itself.

I also know what led certain classes down that road, and wish to avoid the mistakes of the past.

I can see that you have bad feelings about misbalance of some of FFXI classes, but linking it to exp chains is far fetched

[Doho]

haha speeral comes in for the save. but really grind parties in XIV can be quite epic, and all the more dynamic and appealing if we could just get some exp chains! I'm not saying it's going to make everything perfect, but it's going to alleviate a HUGE issue in my opinion, that being there's literally no casual partying going on. Mr. Matsui hook us up! lol