Let's talk about SP/EXP Chains!

[Speeral]

RDM was a poorly-designed generalist. Team Tanaka decided to invent the refresh niche because they couldn't be bothered to fix RDM nor make BRD more attractive to play. Players forced RDM into healing because FFXI had a horrible distribution of roles. Summoner was also a victim of this, sadly.
Player-created role that would have been nerfed within a week of being discovered under any normal, rational developer team that could take scope of what that would do to encounter design and overall class balance.
I wouldn't be so bothered by it had it been someone that actually had a history of being a support class. Like oracle or maybe scholar (which was eventually introduced much later). Instead it inexplicably fell on the guy with a sword in hand that happens to be able to cast magic. I'm just here to comment in hopes that crap does not repeat itself.

I also know what led certain classes down that road, and wish to avoid the mistakes of the past.

Poorly designed generalist? Well let's talk rdm for a minute.

Back before SE upped the level cap there were a bunch of mobs that cannot be low manned or solo'd except by rdm. Fairly powerful no?

Examples and if you really want hope on Sylph server speak with yetimon and Smokari.

They have (most older guys on the server have seen this) low manned Tiamat, Jorm, KB, Faffy, most of sea, Seiryu, Turtle, and other nm's that after not playing for 14 months I cannot remember any more. usually their setup was 4-6 mostly rdm and 1 pld/nin. Now these mobs even then many times took 10-18 people to take down. Their rdm were not just refresh whores they were there doing damage from DOT, to small nukes, to melee(unless tp restricted).

RDM was not a poor generalist, as a solo fighter and in a group stance, a well macro'd and geared RDM could stand against the toughest nm's the game through at the players. Those who understood RDM knew their strengths and weaknesses.

We can speak about SMN.

When talking HNM's SMN had three roles buff, back up emergency heal, and Damage using summons. When ls's first started doing the land wyrms the accepted method at the time was tank+heal+buff pt, and then through as many SMN's as we can because Garuda will do high spike dmg, and then we can uncast them to shed hate, rinse and repeat.

No one class in that game did not have uses or a way to use that class. The players themselves had pigeon holed people into job and subjob combos for different uses depending on the nature of the mob and what its strengths and weaknesses were. That is how strategy works once you find a working strategy you follow it so you don't get defeat. All games are built on layered systems, once you understand the system you understand the game and you defeat the challenge ahead of you.


Now back to exp since that'sthe thread topic. Take exping most payers do not like it hence they want to do it as fast as possible and get to the content where ever it resides, mid game/end game. So in exp pt's most parties were fairly open to getting any job once they filled certain roles tank/heal/buff/nuke pre ToAU, post TOAU there was fast DOT melee, healer, buff was what players looked for to get maximum exp in minnimum time.

Even in XIV everything is fast and less grindy over all compared to xi, but to bring back systems that made the monotony of grinding a little more fun is not a bad thing. Also in XIV there is much less strategy, much stronger pc's, and weaker mobs making sp'ing very easy and worth doing between resets. But why bother when we are still waiting until the meaty content comes? right now unless you really want to you don't need strategy to kill stuff fast and efficiently while using resource management.

This game does not require thinking on a high level like xi did. So Duelle I would suggest having better arguments and some for thought about what someone will counter when you make a statement but with not much behind as proof.

Also www.youtube.com

search rdm solo
rdm low man
rdm anything and you'll see rdm was not a poorly developed job

[tachikoma]

When you think that exp chains is going to force optimization of parties and pidgeonholing jobs you are correct but that will happen no matter the system. Right now we don't have chains but if you can find it adding arc's to your leve party or raptor party makes SP/hour go up ALOT. more arcs = more sp/hour. Adding in a chain bonus for speed kills on T/VT was the problem in FFXI, They could just as easily base chains not on speed but on meeting certain conditions. Like others have stated fighting mobs well over your lvl say 10+ could cause chain bonus. Now dunesfolk might be interesting on 4-5 stars since the mob lvl jumps up you could go for chains but the fights would be very though. Fix stats and add in special incaps and now I could see some fun fights even with our lol dunes that goes on every day over and over.

[Doho]

haha speeral comes in for the save. but really grind parties in XIV can be quite epic, and all the more dynamic and appealing if we could just get some exp chains! I'm not saying it's going to make everything perfect, but it's going to alleviate a HUGE issue in my opinion, that being there's literally no casual partying going on. Mr. Matsui hook us up! lol

[Brannigan]

I think it'd be cool if battlewardens hung out at the aetherytes and nodes and gave any party that asked them a behest-like thing. SP wouldn't be boosted and mobs wouldn't be instanced but it'd be stuff like

Kill 3 Efts in 5 minutes. If you succeed, you get a new goal and the timer is reset. The goals would get harder and harder and you'd get a bonus (SP, tokens for whatever, Guardian's Favor, whatever) depending on how many of the goals you could complete before running out of time. Every 3rd or so success they could give you a full party heal/mana restore and maybe a speed buff every other one. Stuff like that. It'd keep parties moving and active and probably fun.

[northernsky]

I think it'd be cool if battlewardens hung out at the aetherytes and nodes and gave any party that asked them a behest-like thing. SP wouldn't be boosted and mobs wouldn't be instanced but it'd be stuff like

Kill 3 Efts in 5 minutes. If you succeed, you get a new goal and the timer is reset. The goals would get harder and harder and you'd get a bonus (SP, tokens for whatever, Guardian's Favor, whatever) depending on how many of the goals you could complete before running out of time. Every 3rd or so success they could give you a full party heal/mana restore and maybe a speed buff every other one. Stuff like that. It'd keep parties moving and active and probably fun.

Maybe you could earn tabs for completing one of those, which you can exchange for temporary buffs or free teleport? ;-)

[Nuru]

I am in favor of chaining. The only parties I have been in outside of Levequest parties are Raptor Parties, which is decent SP gain but still a little slow. I am in no rush to reach R50, but there needs to be more incentive to go out and do something instead of waiting on your leves to refresh. Not too many people are fond of the crafting system either, in which there should be chaining to that as well.

Chaining to me can only bring about good/positive aspects of SP gain, it provides goals for players to meet and an incentive to keep going on with that activity rather than bore someone to death after an hour worth of SPing and not gaining a single rank.

Again, I'm in no rush to rank up, but I am more for the sake of ridding the boredom that comes with grinding.

[Sykora727]

*masterpiece theater music/bubble pipe*
Why hello there, I'm so glad you clicked this topic!

Now that I've gracefully disarmed you with an inviting atmosphere and dashing repartee, I would like to ask: What are your thoughts on the addition of a SP/EXP chain system? Who knows, it could even be in the works as we speak *fingers crossed*

I know you're thinking, well Doho, we already have leve linking to increase our SP gain. And you are correct! However, what about when you're not doing leves, which I've found is a gaping void for me depending on how close it is til reset. (call me a grind rat savage, but I'm just not a crafter)


I in no way purport my opinions as the last say, but the game feels so bland without them. It would certainly speed things up a little, especially in the 40's.

I don't know, what do you think? Pros, cons.


FF11 Style:


FF12 Style:

Jolly good suggestion, my good man. Seriously, you're among the many, including myself, who have been begging for this. It's Final Fantasy.

[Zantetsuken]

I really liked the FFXII style chains. I suppose I would prefer to see a system in FFXIV that branches off at certain benchmarks, or gives you some randomized goals as you go forward...

For instance:

Chain-01: Defeat 10 Even match or higher mobs in 5 min [5% EXP Bonus]
Chain-02: (Option A) Defeat 5 IT mobs in 5 min [8% EXP bonus]
Chain-02: (Option B) Defeat 4 mobs using Battle regimens in 5 min [8% SP bonus]
Chain-03: (Option A) Defeat 6 of the same type of mob in 5 min [12% EXP Bonus]
Chain-03: (Option B) Defeat 4 mobs without using healing skills in 5 min [12% SP Bonus]
Chain-03: (Option C) Defeat 8 Vilekin in the next 10 min [Gold Treasure Box Drop and 10% EXP and SP bonus]

Something like that would make partying very fun and exciting IMO.

[Nuru]

I really liked the FFXII style chains. I suppose I would prefer to see a system in FFXIV that branches off at certain benchmarks, or gives you some randomized goals as you go forward...

For instance:

Chain-01: Defeat 10 Even match or higher mobs in 5 min [5% EXP Bonus]
Chain-02: (Option A) Defeat 5 IT mobs in 5 min [8% EXP bonus]
Chain-02: (Option B) Defeat 4 mobs using Battle regimens in 5 min [8% SP bonus]
Chain-03: (Option A) Defeat 6 of the same type of mob in 5 min [12% EXP Bonus]
Chain-03: (Option B) Defeat 4 mobs without using healing skills in 5 min [12% SP Bonus]
Chain-03: (Option C) Defeat 8 Vilekin in the next 10 min [Gold Treasure Box Drop and 10% EXP and SP bonus]

Something like that would make partying very fun and exciting IMO.

I can't tell you how much i really love this idea!

[Doho]

I really liked the FFXII style chains. I suppose I would prefer to see a system in FFXIV that branches off at certain benchmarks, or gives you some randomized goals as you go forward...

For instance:

Chain-01: Defeat 10 Even match or higher mobs in 5 min [5% EXP Bonus]
Chain-02: (Option A) Defeat 5 IT mobs in 5 min [8% EXP bonus]
Chain-02: (Option B) Defeat 4 mobs using Battle regimens in 5 min [8% SP bonus]
Chain-03: (Option A) Defeat 6 of the same type of mob in 5 min [12% EXP Bonus]
Chain-03: (Option B) Defeat 4 mobs without using healing skills in 5 min [12% SP Bonus]
Chain-03: (Option C) Defeat 8 Vilekin in the next 10 min [Gold Treasure Box Drop and 10% EXP and SP bonus]

Something like that would make partying very fun and exciting IMO.

this is an EXCELLENT idea. and there could be tons of variables. elements, incapacitation, battle regimen etc etc.

yup, I think we're done here. devs take over lol