Tanaka or Yoshi?

[Augury]

Guys, don't reply to that guy going on about politics. Just report his post, block the user and carry on as normal.
It's that simple.

I took down my posts on the matter, I hope the other fellow does the same.

On subject:
Tanaka is a FANTASTIC designer, but the idea he had was far too big for the time alloted to this game. MMORPGs are HUGE money pits, and Square is very liberal about their published content- but this came to harm them in their decision involving XIV because the game wasn't ready for BETA, let alone launch etc. Tanaka's design wasn't able to be boiled down to something which could be stretched out in beta testing, and left the testers wanting more content which was in the works but never finished. This is where Yoshi-P is coming in strong. He seems to have a grasp on Tanaka's large idea, but will probably be able to deliver it to us in a more palatable manner.

[SuzakuCMX]

I took down my posts on the matter, I hope the other fellow does the same.

On subject:
Tanaka is a FANTASTIC designer, but the idea he had was far too big for the time alloted to this game. MMORPGs are HUGE money pits, and Square is very liberal about their published content- but this came to harm them in their decision involving XIV because the game wasn't ready for BETA, let alone launch etc. Tanaka's design wasn't able to be boiled down to something which could be stretched out in beta testing, and left the testers wanting more content which was in the works but never finished. This is where Yoshi-P is coming in strong. He seems to have a grasp on Tanaka's large idea, but will probably be able to deliver it to us in a more palatable manner.

Actually the basis of what Tanaka was doing was pretty damn horrid.

-> Badly coded game
-> Badly designed interface
-> Completely unbalanced combat
-> Lack of proper roles for classes
-> Broken crafting/gathering
-> Lack of basic features (party search, item search for market wards [seriously what in god's name was he thinking?], lack of any sort of instruction on how to play)
-> Extreme lack of content (5 years of development and all it was was levequests, 15 or so story quests [of which only about 5 can be done on one character])
-> Bugs galore (monsters randomly regaining HP, becoming untargettable, etc.)
-> Inability to see a monster's power
-> Broken patcher
-> Somehow they didn't even make sure it was playable on a PS3 even though they knew it was going to be released on the PS3
-> Bad bad bad horrible graphics optimization
-> Broken targeting system adding onto the combat bugs, imbalance, and broken UI

And out of all that, what can you say? "He had a good vision."

It really makes you wonder just what the hell he was doing for 5 years, considering how horribly the game is coded and how much content isn't there.

[gifthorse]

Actually the basis of what Tanaka was doing was pretty damn horrid.

-> Badly coded game
-> Badly designed interface
-> Completely unbalanced combat
-> Lack of proper roles for classes
-> Broken crafting/gathering
-> Lack of basic features (party search, item search for market wards [seriously what in god's name was he thinking?], lack of any sort of instruction on how to play)
-> Extreme lack of content (5 years of development and all it was was levequests, 15 or so story quests [of which only about 5 can be done on one character])
-> Bugs galore (monsters randomly regaining HP, becoming untargettable, etc.)
-> Inability to see a monster's power
-> Broken patcher
-> Somehow they didn't even make sure it was playable on a PS3 even though they knew it was going to be released on the PS3
-> Bad bad bad horrible graphics optimization
-> Broken targeting system adding onto the combat bugs, imbalance, and broken UI

And out of all that, what can you say? "He had a good vision."

It really makes you wonder just what the hell he was doing for 5 years, considering how horribly the game is coded and how much content isn't there.

Well, despite the fact that the game was not in devleopment for 5 years, and also despite the fact that the wards not having a search feature was integral to the type of market system SE needed in order to give meaning to the crafting classes, I can't deny that the game was riddled with bugs and lag. But that's probbaly more a fault of premature release than anything else.

[Augury]

And out of all that, what can you say? "He had a good vision."

It really makes you wonder just what the hell he was doing for 5 years, considering how horribly the game is coded and how much content isn't there.

Well yeah, I'd imagine that the game was mostly on paper up until a year (maybe) of it's Beta. There's a good chance they were arguing about the same things we argue about now... Does the armory system work, does the leve system work, can experience fatigue work, does leveling or ranking work for an MMO? It all seems too rushed to me, to have been what Tanaka really thought he was designing. My guess is that when Yoshda got the job- he probably got the game on paper, as something more robust and fantastic than what we have on our computers. This actually isn't all that uncommon in game design though, a grandiose idea gets vivisected by deadlines and procrastination, and all of those good organs the game needs to work get left out of the product we get.

Every time I look at the conceptual aspects of the game- they are brilliant and sound engaging, and are engaging to act out or experiment with. Every time I play the game- the ideas are riddled with small flaws that need adjustment, but the idea is still there- and good.

[Jennestia]

It really makes you wonder just what the hell he was doing for 5 years, considering how horribly the game is coded and how much content isn't there.

They explained this time and time again -- the game was only in production for 3ish years (2007-2010) and they released it far too soon as it was done to pad reports in the end (note the release time frame and note the lack of meaningful titles released by SE late 2010.)

This is speculation:

Somehow they didn't even make sure it was playable on a PS3 even though they knew it was going to be released on the PS3

Give a source as they've stated the game was completed for the PS3 but it in the end is held back on release, but it kind of is impossible to not know if your game works on a system or not..they said the only difference would be scaled back to 720 and smaller bitmaps for memory reasons.

[SuzakuCMX]

Well, despite the fact that the game was not in devleopment for 5 years, and also despite the fact that the wards not having a search feature was integral to the type of market system SE needed in order to give meaning to the crafting classes, I can't deny that the game was riddled with bugs and lag. But that's probbaly more a fault of premature release than anything else.

Oh hey you're right, it's actually been in development since 2005 (if publicly announcing a new MMO counts as "development") so it's closer to 5 and a half.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/18/sq...-fantasy-xi-2/

EDIT: As for you Jen

http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/24/ffxi...s-square-enix/

They kinda didn't account for the PS3 not having the memory of a PC? It's probably a memory problem because of how horribly coded it is.

[LoLo]

That would be great if he were only competing with EQ, which he was when XI was released.

That's a witty comment but only if I was even remotely talking about competing with MMO's

The person I replied to said Tanaka has not experience with any MMO outside of FFXI. Your comment is troll bait.

[Joeking]

Since you guys can't decide someone should put a picture of both, on one of those Hot or Not websites and lets them decide its fair that way.

[Shai]

That's a witty comment but only if I was even remotely talking about competing with MMO's

The person I replied to said Tanaka has not experience with any MMO outside of FFXI. Your comment is troll bait.

People need to learn the definition of trolling. I know what you were replying to. I'm saying, for the time he made XI, that was enough. For XIV, it's not enough. Does that have anything to do with you? If not, why take it personally. It's called having a conversation. I'm adding my thoughts. I'm not attacking you.

Also, to anyone asking about Tanaka's vision (like this needs to be said or done) try reading the thread or clicking on the link I'm about to post.

Tanaka's Vision

Take a look and see if there's anything in there Tanaka promised you that you'd rather have than larger monsters.

The bottom line is (for a lot of people) this new battle system we've waited 6 months for better be something, because if it's another broken promise or ridiculous run around, I'm guessing this game is as good as done. Yoshida has yet to produce a vision. He's yet to tell us what he even intends to do with the battle system, though we were promised that we would hear from Akihiko Matsui in the "near future" and that was over a week ago.

Perhaps he means "near future" relative to when the game will be good and not in the general sense of the term, or it was just lost in translation.

I liked where Tanaka was going with this broken piece of crap of a game more than ... the hints and vague comments about where Yoshida is taking it. Trust me, I'm a rampant Tanaka critic. I think he ran XI into the ground for too long and I think he made some pretty giant mistakes with XIV, but when I read about the game he intended to make I like what I read. When I read the game Yoshida intends to make ... oh wait, I haven't read that yet. 5 months and still waiting.

[darkstarpoet1]

Oh hey you're right, it's actually been in development since 2005 (if publicly announcing a new MMO counts as "development") so it's closer to 5 and a half.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/18/sq...-fantasy-xi-2/

EDIT: As for you Jen

http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/24/ffxi...s-square-enix/

They kinda didn't account for the PS3 not having the memory of a PC? It's probably a memory problem because of how horribly coded it is.

and besides the engine the game was built on, that this group built, was finished in september 2007. kinda hard to have a game in development on an engine that does not even exist yet. also the 1.0 version of the crystal tools system was not what is even in use in game it was the updated version of that engine the game was built on although i cannot find out what the completion date of version 1.1. i have found the version this game uses was first used in sept 2009, but sure it was completed before then.