Tanaka or Yoshi?

[Zenaku]

once again Yoshi-P is not a god he just one dude who doing a few more things then tanaka every did. But if you want FFXIV to be good you need tanaka and Yoshi-P to work together.

[SuzakuCMX]

Tanaka had great ideas but the game was completely under-developed when he released it...after 5 years of work. Furthermore, as stated in this thread, "most of the 5 years were spent developing the engine" and it's still badly coded...have you ever noticed how nicer looking MMO games run much smoother than FFXIV? FFXIV has massive memory leaks and horrible optimization + huge resource use and it all leads back to terrible spaghetti coding in the engine.

Beyond that, most of the "nice ideas" Tanaka had in mind were implemented fairly horribly...I still can't believe he released the Market Wards without the search option. I don't know what he was thinking.

Yoshida on the other hand has made some pretty . . . enjoyable, I guess, changes but they don't have a large effect on the overall gaming experience. He has lots of changes planned but I'm guessing the majority of the changes will require lots of working with the spaghetti code Tanaka produced.

Right now I favor Yoshida-P. Tanaka should never had been in charge. He should've been the idea guy and Yoshida should've been the guy to actually code and implement the ideas.

EDIT: @Augury - Much of the current state of the economy can be attributed to the continuing reliance of oil (production peaked a couple years ago), the huge amount of $$$ spent on a pointless war, and the use of "Reagan economics"/the trickle-down effect. Bad decisions were made, and continual budget cuts to fund stupid things like the Iraq war are misplacing national funds greatly. However this forum is for discussing FFXIV so stop talking about politics unless you're going to post something about FFXIV as well (and replying to a post about FFXIV doesn't count as talking about FFXIV).

[Nilheim]

I've read most of the thread, and I'm stunned.

To the people supporting Tanaka: what exactly do you call his vision? I'm sorry but his vision is what we had on September 22nd. Sure the game was rushed but that's what he was capable of regardless. You all don't seem to remember how terrible it was then, but I do. I mean seriously, why would you praise the guy for fixing the UI when he's the one who fucked it up so bad in the first place? We had NO content. Absolutely nothing. Ok we had leves and the main storyline, but that's it really. We couldn't even grind properly, it was a nightmare. No inventory sort function, fatigue, no mailing system, no party seeking option... were those part of Tanaka's great vision? Cause everything I just mentioned WAS part of the game at release. So honestly all I feel like asking you people is: what the fuck?

The game is getting better, it's not good yet but it's on its way. All the pieces matter, people. If the game still sucks in 6 months I'll be pissed, no doubt, but what can we expect, honestly? I mean seeing devs saying it's gonna take a while to implement something like a freaking mailbox kinda tells me the ground work was fucked up. The whole thing has be fixed. And I don't know shit about making games, but that much seems pretty obvious.

Also, of course they're going to fix the battle system first, it's the centre of the game. They're not going to implement a shitton of stuff now if they have to work on it again after the overhaul is complete. What's happening right now is they are working on fixing shit that makes it impossible for them to actually develop the game, and I'm guessing that once the overhaul and the other essential problems are fixed, the ball will start rolling much faster.

Gifthorse, why the hell do you want Linkshell ships and player housing now? There would be nothing to do with it. Let's say they add it tomorrow, what are you gonna do? Build your ship and a house and fly over a world that's full of nothing? sounds awesome. Wait until there's some substance before demanding stuff that doesn't mean shit without something to back it up.

Yoshida gave us sidequests. Ok they're pretty lame, but you have to see the big picture. Some quests in FFXI sucked too, but they were part of making the world live. A year from now, when some newbie starts playing, he'll have choices. He gave us NMs, and I actually played the game for more than 2 hours for the first time in a month last week because I was camping them to get stuff for some friends and myself. Again, choice.
He also worked on the horrible targeting system. It's not great yet but at least we can work with it. He has bettered many things that were wrong with the UI. Take crafting for example, we now have a repeat button during locals. It doesn't seem like much but it's little things like this that make the game better.

What's wrong with hubs around the world? Why compare that to WoW? I don't know if you noticed but Eorzea is one fucking boring place. This will bring some life to our world if nothing else. I don't know about dungeons though, I will wait until I know more before saying anything.

That's the good side of Yoshida, but I agree with the person who mentioned that his letters are very vague. We don't know that much about the upcoming changes. We have the idea, but we don't know how it'll be set into motion.

In case it's not clear and before I'm deemed a Yoshida fanboy, I'm not thinking he's some kind of hero, I just have faith, cause what else is there? Right now he hasn't proven he can turn the game around, but I'm willing to give him some time cause he has to work with some shitty materials because of how messed up the game was when he took charge.

[Kurokikaze]

So much rage in your posts... u mad bro?

Btw, I know this might be hard to accept but... Tanaka's vision ended the minute the game was released. Everything you see on that list is an attempt to fix errors done 1-2 months prior. It's no longer a vision so much as it is a restoration effort.

Secondly, the reason Yoshi-P decided to work on combat was because of the player poll... Remember when we, the players, voted and said that was the most important thing to fix/rehaul? Selective memory is cool.

[Shai]

So much rage in your posts... u mad bro?

Btw, I know this might be hard to accept but... Tanaka's vision ended the minute the game was released. Everything you see on that list is an attempt to fix errors done 1-2 months prior. It's no longer a vision so much as it is a restoration effort.

Secondly, the reason Yoshi-P decided to work on combat was because of the player poll... Remember when we, the players, voted and said that was the most important thing to fix/rehaul? Selective memory is cool.

You mean when an overwhelming 40% voted we wanted more story content? More quests and lore? That they wanted more content added to the game? Battle came in 2nd and I realize developmentally why Battle takes precedence. I've had this same conversation over and over. Page 8 of this thread is like a rehash of 1-3. Read some of my earlier posts.

It's right here: First Producer Letter

Note: Battle is #2. Content is #1. Story content specifically.

[darkstarpoet1]

So much rage in your posts... u mad bro?

Btw, I know this might be hard to accept but... Tanaka's vision ended the minute the game was released. Everything you see on that list is an attempt to fix errors done 1-2 months prior. It's no longer a vision so much as it is a restoration effort.

Secondly, the reason Yoshi-P decided to work on combat was because of the player poll... Remember when we, the players, voted and said that was the most important thing to fix/rehaul? Selective memory is cool.

once again go look at the polls. battle system overhaul was not the thing the users voted for to be done first. he spit on the poll results and did what he wanted. don't try telling me making the game loleasy qualifies as content. yes he added low level nm's and lame side quests.

[Kurokikaze]

once again go look at the polls. battle system overhaul was not the thing the users voted for to be done first. he spit on the poll results and did what he wanted.

Shai corrected me and I am man enough to admit it. Story came first and Battle second... So apparently what you're trying to say is that putting in quests, nms and stuff doesn't count as story-based content? News at 11.

As for why I like Yoshi-P more? Idk let's see...

- Better communication.
- Faster updates. Even if small. You get it when its ready and you don't have to idle around till the next big patch as Tanaka made us do all throughout FFXI and the beginning of FFXIV.
- He understands whats fundamentally wrong with the game and knows what to tackle.
- The minute he stepped in - player poll. Coming way closer to the community than Tanaka ever had in his 9 or so years with XI and XIV.

I could keep going but it doesn't matter... you're so far to the right on this topic that its a waste of time to try to meet at the center (lol who gets it?).

I will say this though... Stop bitching about not hearing from Yoshida or anyone else... No one owes you anything, except Tanaka who owes you a 50-80 bucks spent on this abortion. lol

In response to Shiyo; I'm sorry, I have a very low tolerance for stupidity and you exert a lot of it.

[Shai]

So apparently what you're trying to say is that putting in quests, nms and stuff doesn't count as story-based content? News at 11.

Side-Quests do bring some story to the game. The first wave was pretty weak, but the last few waves have been foreshadowing Grand Companies and had more to do than fetch quests. "Winds of Change" and the others like it in Ul'dah and Gridania are three of my favorite quests so far.

I'm thinking, though, that when people said they wanted more story content, they meant the Main Storyline and Class Quests (which Tanaka said he'd bring 1Q 2011) and not these primarily bland little NPC quests, but that's open to interpretation, right?

The NMs, though, are content but not story content. Also, Tanaka said he'd be adding NMs in the 1st update 2011.

My real question, btw, was to compare Yoshida's list to Tanaka's list and tell me which sounded more exciting. Just FYI, but this is a pretty good post so I'll let it slide.

- Better communication.

True. I like that about Yoshida, too. Though his last Letter with content in it was February 17th. It's May 8th.

- Faster updates. Even if small.

I like this, too, and Yoshida's been good about this. Though his content has included "bigger monsters" and Tanaka's updates have included entirely new SP system (in response to fans) and Searchable Market Wards. So you win some you lose some, I think.

- He understands whats fundamentally wrong with the game and knows what to tackle.

I would need some proof of this, like an update with something Yoshida added to the game that Tanaka didn't have on his list already - because bigger monsters isn't cutting it. The battle system will be the true test of this statement, but we know nothing about the battle system, so seeing will be believing.

- The minute he stepped in - player poll.

Closer than Tanaka ever has, but I can't even begin to describe to you what's wrong with those 2 polls. The questions are loaded, the answers are too vague, you don't even know how your answers are going to be interpreted into game mechanics - but if all you want is to feel heard or closer to the Producer than before, then yes you got that warm feeling from the polls. I did, too. The polls are extremely flawed, though.

I could keep going but it doesn't matter...

Of course it matters. I was elated the day Yoshida took over. I wanted to have a party in the street (if anyone I knew played XIV in this state, I may have!) but 5 months down the line and I'm not so happy with what progress we've made. I am patient. I played XI for 8 years. Tanaka taught me about patience. ^^

I think someone who goes around saying he's going to whip this game into shape, "don't you worry, Shai, I got this one in the bag, rest assured" does owe me some kind of explanation at some point. Especially when half a year later it's not exactly clear what he intended or what he had in mind. I cannot rest assured without some assurance.

If people want to say it's the community's fault if the battle system flops and the game dies, then I think the community should at least know what the battle system is going to be and to give some feedback on it. Do you think that will happen? I don't think so.

Do you feel like you know more about the future of XIV because of Yoshida than you did about the future of XIV (or XI) because of Tanaka? ...because I feel very much in the dark. I feel like it's a grand secret that only the devs know and they "can't wait to tell us!" yet they never do until 2 days before patch release. How is that bringing Yoshida closer to the community? Please, let me know how you feel about it.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

Side-Quests do bring some story to the game. The first wave was pretty weak, but the last few waves have been foreshadowing Grand Companies and had more to do than fetch quests. "Winds of Change" and the others like it in Ul'dah and Gridania are three of my favorite quests so far.

I'm thinking, though, that when people said they wanted more story content, they meant the Main Storyline and Class Quests (which Tanaka said he'd bring 1Q 2011) and not these primarily bland little NPC quests, but that's open to interpretation, right?

The NMs, though, are content but not story content. Also, Tanaka said he'd be adding NMs in the 1st update 2011.

My real question, btw, was to compare Yoshida's list to Tanaka's list and tell me which sounded more exciting. Just FYI, but this is a pretty good post so I'll let it slide.

You have to understand that Tanaka wasn't planning on revising the battle system. Until the new battle system comes in we won't see any "major" content added. I'm sure if Yoshida didn't have to change the battle system we would be probably seen that stuff earlier.