Get rid of the prices in market search

[Zenaku]

No need for that the game is new and young no one know the real price for anything. Look at FFXI when there a big need of slime oils let's say you see it around 14k then soon everyone see the price that big it goes down to 8k. So all you have to do is Farm it when it high or farm x3 the amount that in the AH/market to over cut it. You can even buy all the slim oils for 6-8k then sell it for 14-15k and make a profit.

I'm sorry you not smart enough to even think about overcutting This is a game i play a lot in FFXI which turn out i made a big profit. There only a 50-50% you would lose profit and you may have to wait longer. Like for angel skin i get 3 in one night should i wait or sell it? I sell 2 and wait to sell the last one the price goes up 250k then i just got a good profit.

Btw Gilsellers would undercut and overcut in the AH a lot gilseller does help the market price flow but some players are lazy and undercut the gilseller even more and this is when things get crazy

take things to your own hand and over-cut to make the price and market flow better. so everyone can make a profit and not get jack also.

[MeowyWowie]

MarkH you raise another good point. Perishable items are severely lacking in this game, (but what isn't? lol) Silent oils, Warp cudgels and the like always tend to stay at roughly the same price because there is constant demand for them. But even perishable items won't be enough to to save the economy as the gil is still on the server, it's just circulating. Don't get me wrong though, the circulation of gil is still very important. We need both time sinks and gil sinks, both are equally essential for a healthy economy. Hopefully the incoming materia system will have a large effect on our economy. If SE plays their cards right it will remove gil from the system and give us incentive to keep purchasing gear in an attempt for better results.

I think the main problem is that currently nothing is rare, at all. And I think that's another good example of lacking time sinks. The constant depreciation of item value is the result and the snowball effect is out of control now. But there's nothing we as players can do about it, it's up to SE to fix it. I suppose no matter what form of market system we have, the same problems will still remain. I personally don't like the current system, but that's just me I guess. To each his own.

Zenaku, I don't know if your post was directed at me, but if it was, I don't see why you feel the need to say I'm not smart. I think I'm intelligent enough to debate on topics like these. I know very well how to control a market and the effects of undercutting and over-cutting. I funded and completed my Mandau solely from Angel skins in FFXI and was half way done with Kikoku before I quit in February of last year. Sure, some people hated me for it because I had 3 active accounts which I played. Some thought I was RMT or botting lol. But did I care? Not at all. I guess they were just jealous.

My point is it's very easy to control a niche in the market if you know how, but this discussion is about undercutting and the current system's effect on it. I think you would be hard pressed to over-cut anything in our current economy. The economy is still in its infancy and is severely lacking in terms of variety. The best thing we can do is provide suggestions and wait and see what SE has in store for us as far as new items and gear go.

[Xenor]

I'm sorry you not smart enough to even think about overcutting This is a game i play a lot in FFXI which turn out i made a big profit. There only a 50-50% you would lose profit and you may have to wait longer. Like for angel skin i get 3 in one night should i wait or sell it? I sell 2 and wait to sell the last one the price goes up 250k then i just got a good profit.

I don't know what you're talking about lol. I bought 600 oak logs a few weeks ago at 1k each. Kept the +1/2/3s and slowly sold the NQs for 2500 each. Easy 1mil profit there. I know how to play the market.

My main issue with undercutting is someone coming along and putting their walnut logs up for 7980 gil when a guy has theirs up for 8000. Then I come along and put mine up for 7960 to show him that undercutting isn't cool. Then he comes back and puts his up for 7950. Come on, this is just retarded and it's clear people are undercutting there to sell their shit first and not because they feel the previous seller was over priced.

How would you suggest to solve this other than sit at the market wards all day ready to "compete" with some guy who feels your logs are 0.0001% "over priced"? I like MeowyWowie's idea of only showing people what a fair average price is instead of real prices. It matters little to the average player that they're paying 20 more gil per log, that's 2k for a stack of them. But currently the buyer will always go for the guy at the top of the list and hence why people do this.

Another way we could solve this is something I've been talking about in other threads. Make items rarer so that demand is always higher than supply. Cap walnut logs at 1 per chop and you've solved the undercutting problem because they'll always sell out fast. Same for every item in the game. Dodore Wings are way too common for example and it's why the price on my server has halved in the past week. I don't even sell those but the undercutting going on is hilarious.

Let's face it, the economy in this game is broke and even Yoshi knows this. He stated months ago that he'd be talking about the economy in a following letter but he never did. He will get round to it and changes will be made. If you want good changes this *** needs talking about.

[AngryNixon]

I don't know what you're talking about lol. I bought 600 oak logs a few weeks ago at 1k each. Kept the +1/2/3s and slowly sold the NQs for 2500 each. Easy 1mil profit there. I know how to play the market.

My main issue with undercutting is someone coming along and putting their walnut logs up for 7980 gil when a guy has theirs up for 8000. Then I come along and put mine up for 7960 to show him that undercutting isn't cool. Then he comes back and puts his up for 7950. Come on, this is just retarded and it's clear people are undercutting there to sell their shit first and not because they feel the previous seller was over priced.

How would you suggest to solve this other than sit at the market wards all day ready to "compete" with some guy who feels your logs are 0.0001% "over priced"? I like MeowyWowie's idea of only showing people what a fair average price is instead of real prices. It matters little to the average player that they're paying 20 more gil per log, that's 2k for a stack of them. But currently the buyer will always go for the guy at the top of the list and hence why people do this.

Another way we could solve this is something I've been talking about in other threads. Make items rarer so that demand is always higher than supply. Cap walnut logs at 1 per chop and you've solved the undercutting problem because they'll always sell out fast. Same for every item in the game. Dodore Wings are way too common for example and it's why the price on my server has halved in the past week. I don't even sell those but the undercutting going on is hilarious.

Let's face it, the economy in this game is broke and even Yoshi knows this. He stated months ago that he'd be talking about the economy in a following letter but he never did. He will get round to it and changes will be made. If you want good changes this *** needs talking about.

Xenor you make the assumption, perhaps in error, that impatience is not a valid factor in the market place. Walmart screws small businesses like this all the time by "rolling back" their prices. They don't give a shit and just want to move their stuff asap. There are more complex reasons why they can charge what they do but for this example that's not important. They are willing to make a few cents less on the retail tag to move their goods faster. People who undercut you buy 10 gil just want to move their goods first, because they don't care enough to match your lowest price (assuming it is the lowest on the top 20 list, and if it isn't you're not in the game anyhow so who cares), and potentially have to wait a while longer to move the item.

People are not stupid and will always attempt to put themselves at the top of the list (if they actually want to sell their item quickly) by shaving a few gil off to move their items first. This is how it works. If you're patient enough to wait then charge w/e the hell you want, if you're not, take 20-30 gil less than the next lowest price and list your item at the top. That's the cost of doing business. Get over it.

The fact that you don't perceive the markets to be fair is not a big "P" Problem but a little "p" problem. As in your problem. Stop trying to peddle a system where the markets are vague and uninformative.

[Xenor]

Xenor you make the assumption, perhaps in error, that impatience is not a valid factor in the market place. Walmart screws small businesses like this all the time by "rolling back" their prices. They don't give a shit and just want to move their stuff asap. There are more complex reasons why they can charge what they do but for this example that's not important. They are willing to make a few cents less on the retail tag to move their goods faster. People who undercut you buy 10 gil just want to move their goods first, because they don't care enough to match your lowest price (assuming it is the lowest on the top 20 list, and if it isn't you're not in the game anyhow so who cares), and potentially have to wait a while longer to move the item.

Stop trying to compare the real world to a game economy. There's some similarities but not everything is the same. There's nowhere I can go to in this country where I can bring up a list of what price every shop in the city is selling a product for. The shops aren't all in the same location either so even if I could save 10 pence on my £50 product it may not be worth walking 3 miles for. There's no shopping around for the best deal in this game, you're just told what the cheapest shop is and that shop is right in front of you so no distance to factor in.

Your idea could work if all market wards were linked and people were evenly spread throughout the world because then you'll have to ask yourself if it's worth travelling to Gridania to save 10 gil. But that's not how this game works.

The problem that you aren't addressing is that as a crafter - I make items for SP, not to sell. Selling is just a by product of me working to gain SP. The only constraint is how much retainer space I have to sell those items.

Woah, people still try to sell their skill up items in the wards? I'm not talking about junk here. I'm talking about items that have value. You think I'd try to sell the 2500 walnut masks I'm making to take my CRP 40-50? No chance in hell, that's at least four for every player on the server and that's just my junk.

Look don't attack me because i somewhat offend you some how all am saying there no need to take the price off the market that the dumbest idea anyone can come up with. I don't want to waste 20-30min going to each NPC and then putting it down then go and remember which one was the low in cost item. This is the reason they add the price on it to start with so there no turning back

The End

If you want to spend half an hour to save 10 gil that's up to you, but most people will pay the average price and follow the logic of time = money and make way more than 10 gil with their time. I never suggested make the whole system blind so that it's easy to rob you. XI doesn't list current prices and people don't *** and cry about that.

If you don't like prices going down....screwing with information available in a display is not how to fix that. SE should create something to do with the items - this would stabilize their prices. Right now there is a huge influx of harvested mats, dropped mats, and mats and gil from quests and NMs. But there is no process by which those leave the market permanently except repairs (a little bit of loss), and broken synths (minimal loss). If you keep increasing supply, with no demand then what do you expect. People will keep undercutting until the sell in mw price = sell to vendor price.

I agree something needs to be done about the supply. Raw materials are way too common, this means the only ones that have value are those skilled on like yew and walnut. Supply should be cut way down when there's no massive demand for it. This may well solve the problem of undercutting, making things rarer. But I believe I've talked about that already.

@OP, if you aren't selling your stuff, you're not listing them at the proper market value. I've made millions of gil selling stuff, and I don't have a crafting class over R30.

Erm, did you read the thread? What is the proper market value then? Whatever I list my *** as - 10 gil? If I list my *** at 10 gil less some rag will come along and list their *** at 10 gil less than that. I list my *** based on the demand, market price and who is undercutting me.


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That's the last time I'm making a massive response to cover everyone's points in this thread. I get it, removing prices is unpopular with consumers because they want items to hit rock bottom prices as fast as possible. Instead I'll focus ideas on how to cut supply so that items are often out of stock in the wards, that way if someone undercuts you it doesn't matter because your shit will eventually sell.

I am against any form of "bind on equip" because it kills the market for anything that isn't end-game material. I'm not going to pay a million for a +3 rank 30 weapon for example if I'm forced to NPC it when that rank 38 weapon becomes better than it. If I can't get that million back I'm sticking with NQ.

[Rentahamster]

Erm, did you read the thread?

Erm, yes.

What is the proper market value then?

That's for you to figure out based on past price history, current server market trends, and knowledge of the supply of other goods.

Whatever I list my *** as - 10 gil? If I list my *** at 10 gil less some rag will come along and list their *** at 10 gil less than that. I list my *** based on the demand, market price and who is undercutting me.

Why bother quibbling at -10 gil? Lower that price by 1k, if not 5k or 10k. If that price is not worth it to you, don't even bother selling the item and move on to something else. Eventually there's a point where it's not worth it to sell at a lower price than is economically feasible for you. If that happens to be lower than your competitors, great. If not, just move on and wait till that item is hot again.

If you thing you're getting shafted because people are selling stuff at a much lower price than what you want to sell it for, then news flash: it's probably not worth as much as you think it is, and just because it may have cost you a lot of gil or time to gather/make, that doesn't mean that it cost as much to someone else.

[Naylia]

Woah, people still try to sell their skill up items in the wards? I'm not talking about junk here. I'm talking about items that have value. You think I'd try to sell the 2500 walnut masks I'm making to take my CRP 40-50? No chance in hell, that's at least four for every player on the server and that's just my junk.

That's why as I've ranked up my Carpenter to 30, I have never made a single mask. I've made lots of javelins and arrows and I sell every single one. If you choose to grind on something that has no market value, that's not my fault. As long as I can sell for 26 gil / arrow or mre to cover the cost of supplies then I'm happy, and I'll keep reducing my prices down to 26 gil / arrow to make sure my inventory turns over quick. If prices fall below 26 gil / arrow, then I'll move on to a different synth that will sustain me buying replacement mats so that I can keep synthing without taking a loss.

And you could easily apply the same to DoL - where everything they collect is while earning SP. So ranking up, once again introduces lots of excess supply into the game that people want to get rid of.

Erm, did you read the thread? What is the proper market value then? Whatever I list my *** as - 10 gil? If I list my *** at 10 gil less some rag will come along and list their *** at 10 gil less than that. I list my *** based on the demand, market price and who is undercutting me.

If they keep undercutting you, and you keep undercutting them, and no one has bought either item yet -> then you sure haven't reached market equilibrium yet.

Lots of competition drives prices and profit down to the point where price = cost. You should never expect to make a bunch of money selling commodities in a free market. There's always someone out there who is reducing the cost of production and will undercut you.

[AngryNixon]

If they keep undercutting you, and you keep undercutting them, and no one has bought either item yet -> then you sure haven't reached market equilibrium yet.

Lots of competition drives prices and profit down to the point where price = cost. You should never expect to make a bunch of money selling commodities in a free market. There's always someone out there who is reducing the cost of production and will undercut you.

Very wise Naylia is.

[Rentahamster]

Very wise Naylia is.

Very wise, indeed.

[Jinko]

That's why as I've ranked up my Carpenter to 30, I have never made a single mask. I've made lots of javelins and arrows and I sell every single one. If you choose to grind on something that has no market value, that's not my fault.

This, as a weaver I only grind on making cloth and yarn, this way I can easily sell it with little loss, or just stockpile it for later use.