Get rid of the prices in market search

[AngryNixon]

Or perhaps the item just plain sucks and no one wants it. A price history would have told the player that easily instead of the player putting up a useless item for sale.


Or perhaps the player doesn't really know what the market rate should be since he doesn't know what the demand is and how useful/useless the item is. Perhaps he puts it up too high and no one buys it. Perhaps he puts it up too low and gets shafted. A price history would have easily give the player enough info to let him decide quickly and easily, without the hassle of guess and check.

lol. So true. Seems the going assumption is "my items is great, why won't anyone buy it for the price I've listed it at randomly, surely my powers of deduction based on nothing are infallible. It must be everyone else's fault that my item didn't sell. change the system."

Gold sellers and buyers cause the prices to skyrocket beyond what an honest person can pay. Other than that, all's fair in Walmart.

Honestly, I rarely look at prices or history, I just put it up for what I want. Which is hundreds if not thousands less then what other people will put it up for (I'll see that when I'm looking to buy). I don't need that much gil, and I'd rather make someone's day. Of course, someone could be buying it up and reselling it, but I got the price I wanted.

On the flip side, if someone is selling something for what I think is too much, I will not buy it. I'll either shop until I find a price I agree on, or wait until I can make it myself. I do the same thing irl, I won't buy something if I think it's overpriced.

A lot of peole are just too greedy, I think. In a game no less. Plus, someone has to have the lowest price. You can't just expect everyone to sell it for the same as you, hoping the customers will pick your store. That's not the way economy works.

How dare you bring common sense into this.

[Naylia]

Woah, people still try to sell their skill up items in the wards? I'm not talking about junk here. I'm talking about items that have value. You think I'd try to sell the 2500 walnut masks I'm making to take my CRP 40-50? No chance in hell, that's at least four for every player on the server and that's just my junk.

That's why as I've ranked up my Carpenter to 30, I have never made a single mask. I've made lots of javelins and arrows and I sell every single one. If you choose to grind on something that has no market value, that's not my fault. As long as I can sell for 26 gil / arrow or mre to cover the cost of supplies then I'm happy, and I'll keep reducing my prices down to 26 gil / arrow to make sure my inventory turns over quick. If prices fall below 26 gil / arrow, then I'll move on to a different synth that will sustain me buying replacement mats so that I can keep synthing without taking a loss.

And you could easily apply the same to DoL - where everything they collect is while earning SP. So ranking up, once again introduces lots of excess supply into the game that people want to get rid of.

Erm, did you read the thread? What is the proper market value then? Whatever I list my *** as - 10 gil? If I list my *** at 10 gil less some rag will come along and list their *** at 10 gil less than that. I list my *** based on the demand, market price and who is undercutting me.

If they keep undercutting you, and you keep undercutting them, and no one has bought either item yet -> then you sure haven't reached market equilibrium yet.

Lots of competition drives prices and profit down to the point where price = cost. You should never expect to make a bunch of money selling commodities in a free market. There's always someone out there who is reducing the cost of production and will undercut you.

[AngryNixon]

If they keep undercutting you, and you keep undercutting them, and no one has bought either item yet -> then you sure haven't reached market equilibrium yet.

Lots of competition drives prices and profit down to the point where price = cost. You should never expect to make a bunch of money selling commodities in a free market. There's always someone out there who is reducing the cost of production and will undercut you.

Very wise Naylia is.

[Rentahamster]

Very wise Naylia is.

Very wise, indeed.

[Jinko]

That's why as I've ranked up my Carpenter to 30, I have never made a single mask. I've made lots of javelins and arrows and I sell every single one. If you choose to grind on something that has no market value, that's not my fault.

This, as a weaver I only grind on making cloth and yarn, this way I can easily sell it with little loss, or just stockpile it for later use.

[VydarrTyr]

Lots of competition drives prices and profit down to the point where price = cost. You should never expect to make a bunch of money selling commodities in a free market. There's always someone out there who is reducing the cost of production and will undercut you.

The only real "cost" in this game is time. And people will have different ideas of what their time is worth. Which is probably why folks like Xenor keep getting their prices undercut. He seems to think his time is very valuable. But some people don't care that much about making money. They play the game to have fun, and they happen to pick up stuff while having fun. They know other people can have fun by using that stuff, so they're willing to give it to them for super cheap.

Which is why I usually end up giving most of my mats away. For free. Because I'm a terrible crafter, and I know people are spending millions of gil and hundreds of hours leveling away at crafting ... because they enjoy it. So if I can help them have fun, and it doesn't really cost me anything, then I'm willing to give it away for free.

[AngryNixon]

The only real "cost" in this game is time. And people will have different ideas of what their time is worth. Which is probably why folks like Xenor keep getting their prices undercut. He seems to think his time is very valuable. But some people don't care that much about making money. They play the game to have fun, and they happen to pick up stuff while having fun. They know other people can have fun by using that stuff, so they're willing to give it to them for super cheap.

Which is why I usually end up giving most of my mats away. For free. Because I'm a terrible crafter, and I know people are spending millions of gil and hundreds of hours leveling away at crafting ... because they enjoy it. So if I can help them have fun, and it doesn't really cost me anything, then I'm willing to give it away for free.

This. The only "real" thing in a video game is someone's time. How you value that affects how you make many of your choices, not the least of which is the markets in an MMO (any MMO). Most items are priced according to time or some variable that is a function or derivative of time (eg. rarity).

If you're a nice guy like Vydarr who does not have a serious or high valuation of his time (because this is a video game after all and video games are, or are supposed to be, a leisure activity), then he and others like him will always have a cheaper price than those like Xenor who fundamentally disagree on the respective values of their time.

Undercutting happens in part, not in whole, because some people simply don't care all that much. I'm in the don't care boat with Vydarr. I often just dump things to NPCs but sometimes give mats away, or price items I make or come across very cheaply because I just want to unload them (mostly because I'm a bit neurotic about inventory management and I hate clutter). My prices will always be cheaper than Xenor's and I will always undercut people like him because (a) I might think his price is just high so there is no way I'd bother matching it or (b) again, I just don't care enough to do a serious and thorough valuation of my time as it relates to that item. It is partially because of this that undercutting will always happen.

The mismatch here between those who get bent out of shape about this issue and those who simply could care less will always cause a bit of friction. The important part in this is that that friction exists on the side of the person who cares about this issue. For the rest of us, it's all good, keep on undercutting and keeping those inventories neat and clean..

[Arcell]

I honestly think prices should stay, it's a matter of buyer convenience. It takes us back to how things were before where someone could sell an item at ridiculous prices because they were the first person the buyer saw. The system is pretty good as is but a few other things need to be added.

-Differentiation of NQ, +1, +2, +3.

-Average Price.

-Possibly link them as a global wards system. This is something I know people want, I could do with or without it.

Undercutting is something that just happens. You can either deal with it or not participate in the wards. Whenever I sell things in games I tend to find the lowest price and sell AT that price. I generally don't care about making the most money off of something, I just want it sold.

[Roaran]

Also if prices drop too low, noone would bother making them. So, the most effecient players, or those willing to make less, will eventually dominate selling... which is a good thing.

[AngryNixon]

Curious thing Arcell raises about +1 +2 +3's not being searchable. While the point he/she is making is a dead horse of the highest order, I actually don't think you can even arrive at a discussion of prices being listed in the market search until that other issue is resolved because the information you're getting is essentially garbage information since it's really a random mush of 4 different item qualities when you search any particular item ie. the values you are getting are not necessarily meaningful and are actually sometimes misleading. For example: Market Ward Betty comes along and wants to list her Godly Plate of the Whale, she searches and only finds one listed at 1 bajillion gil, so, being the savvy somewhat impatient person she is, she lists it for 1 bajillion gil. Little does she know that was actually a +3 that she searched so her NQ Godly Plate of the Whale is in fact grossly over priced.

Just a thought.