Defiance still lacking in comparison to Shield Oath

[Coramac]

And if you just make sure you keep up bloodbath every time its off cooldown you can easily offset the difference the pld has in mitigation, it just takes a bit more err i hate to say it... player skill, the potential is there for warrior.

Paladins can use Bloodbath too. Granted, they deal less damage, but it results in a marginal difference.

[Derza]

I'm not at the FFXIV end game but I've done a whole lot of raiding and end game content.

Shield Oath increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by the same. Defiance increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by a scaling amount with a buff without 100% up time by up to 15%. The advantage the Warrior has is less frequent over but it comes solely due to the fact that that heals are less effective.

Unless Paladins get less HP per point of Vit excluding Warrior Defiance. That would change a lot, but I don't have a Paladin.

Isn't shield Oath 20% not 25%?

Paladins can use Bloodbath too. Granted, they deal less damage, but it results in a marginal difference.

Well yea... its inner beast, second wind, Thrill of battle, and Storm's path, but those are used after big hits and what not... i was just saying to keep bloodbath up... and its 30 seconds for warrior and 15 seconds for paladin so not really the same.

Oh and also you need to factor in that 25% more HP means 25% more passive regeneration (I believe its like 1% of max hp every couple seconds) Just something else that would need to be considered (although its pretty minor).

[Sephirah]

It was intended that PLD be main tanks and WAR be offtanks, Square did this on purpose, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about not being main tank. If you wanted to main tank, you should switch to PLD it's that simple.

I also see a bunch of people saying being PLD is easy, not sure what you guys are talking about, but it requires a lot of focus and managing targets, from what I've seen. I'm not saying it's more complex than WAR, as I have no clue how complicated it is having never played it. But don't be mad at PLD for doing what it was made to do, an let WAR do what it's supposed to do.

[Faction]

You can't just say WAR has no place in any instance because PLD is better, period. Example, while the mechanics of the Ifrit fight make PLD a better choice, WAR is great for Garuda.

Huh? What about Garuda makes War better? Paladin is so much easier to heal on that fight and War brings literally nothing special to the table for it.. It's actually a great fight to illustrate just how much better Paladin is.

It was intended that PLD be main tanks and WAR be offtanks,

Weird, because you're not going to be able to find a quote from a dev stating this. This is something you decided, not the actual vision for the game.

(normally they are 1000-1600).

No they aren't. You're just plainly exaggerating. Much better gear than you and mine heals me for 1k non-crit, and that's on a level 45 mob out in the world.

[Derza]

It was intended that PLD be main tanks and WAR be offtanks, Square did this on purpose, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about not being main tank. If you wanted to main tank, you should switch to PLD it's that simple.

I also see a bunch of people saying being PLD is easy, not sure what you guys are talking about, but it requires a lot of focus and managing targets, from what I've seen. I'm not saying it's more complex than WAR, as I have no clue how complicated it is having never played it. But don't be mad at PLD for doing what it was made to do, an let WAR do what it's supposed to do.

Where was it ever stated that paladins would be main tanks and warriors off tank? I'd like a link to this. As far as I know they are both meant to be able to main tank.

[Derza]

You just said that a skill that causes you to heal for anywhere from 70-100 hp every 2.5 seconds for 30 seconds is enough to offset 20% damage mitigation. Think about that for a second.

I said nothing of the sort... I said the combination of the warrior healing skills as well as keeping bloodbath up every time its off cooldown will offset it. Sure if you ignore EVERYTHING I typed before that line i could see how that could be confusing for you.

see this line i wrote "... they compare the damage reductions that paladins have to the ones warriors have and totally ignore all the self heals warriors have?" you just did that... again. I assumed by saying ALL the warrior self heals that i wouldn't have to list them all... guess i was wrong... so here you go... If you use Bloodbath, secondwind, thrill of battle, storms path, and inner beast you can easily offset the damage mitigation that paladins get.

[Faction]

I said nothing of the sort... I said the combination of the warrior healing skills as well as keeping bloodbath up every time its off cooldown will offset it. Sure if you ignore EVERYTHING I typed before that line i could see how that could be confusing for you.

see this line i wrote "they compare the damage reductions that paladins have to the ones warriors have and totally ignore all the self heals warriors have?" you just did that... again.

The combination of warrior healing skills. Hmm, let's think about this for a second.

With an ideal rotation you can use inner beast every 20 seconds.

So every 20 seconds you heal yourself for like 800-1000 at my current gear level. That's 1 cure. It's not even worth it to use inner beast without infuriate from a pure tanking standpoint except in absolute emergencies (in said emergencies, btw, a paladin can actually pop cooldowns WITH MITIGATION. 3 of them.)

Meanwhile bloodbath might heal you for like 1000 across it's entire 30 second duration, and you think this is on the same level as paladin mitigation?

I'd gladly trade all of this inconsequential healing for rampart alone.

[Sephirah]

Where was it ever stated that paladins would be main tanks and warriors off tank? I'd like a link to this. As far as I know they are both meant to be able to main tank.

This is an old interview, but I'm pretty sure they have kept this in mind moving forward.

"JPGAMES.DE: The marauder is a very good damage dealer and also, for example in the Ifrit fights, a really good tank, even a better one than the gladiator. What are your plans for the marauder and its job warrior? How can the paladin/gladiator keep up?

Yoshida Naoki: We are going to make sure to do everything to get the balance right and then we are going to make adjustments to that. For example, the marauder is going to be a really strong attacker, but we don’t want to spoil all the gladiator’s tank positional skills.

http://www.bluegartr.com/archive/ind.../t-107491.html

[HollowEarth]

use beserk with inner beast. your crappy 800 heal is not cracking 2000 NON crit. oh look we can get an ability to make your crit higher..weird :P

plus maim and the combo after that that heals you (forget its name)

side note if you have bloodbath up and you are using inner beast or all that jazz you are getting double heals. (heals from BB and inner beast plus whatever else damage your doing)

warrior is much harder play, this isnt wow where tanking is a faceroll. warrior are just as viable as pallys. granted there are going to be fights where you want a pally for whatever reason, but i highly doubt the reasonw ill be survivablity or because they take less damage.

[Faction]

use beserk with inner beast. your crappy 800 heal is not cracking 2000 NON crit. oh look we can get an ability to make your crit higher..weird :P

If you pop 2 damage cooldowns, waiting through 2 seconds of animation time, you can then use inner beast to heal yourself for 2000 instead of 800, IF it crits. Then you need to pop infuriate to get your stacks back, or build them up again. During this time you're being healed for 15% less.

...

Yeah, that's still completely insignificant compared to gladiator cooldowns.

plus maim and the combo after that that heals you (forget its name)

You should never be using Storm's Path, the heal does next to nothing. Storm's Eye is way better. Higher potency and an actual useful combo effect.

granted there are going to be fights where you want a pally for whatever reason, but i highly doubt the reasonw ill be survivablity or because they take less damage.

That's exactly the reason why you want a paladin main tanking... and this is already happening. The first time we did HM Garuda with a paladin main tanking the very first thing the healers said was "oh my god this is so much easier to heal." But you haven't even done fucken Ampador yet so what do I know?

This is an old interview, but I'm pretty sure they have kept this in mind moving forward.

"JPGAMES.DE: The marauder is a very good damage dealer and also, for example in the Ifrit fights, a really good tank, even a better one than the gladiator. What are your plans for the marauder and its job warrior? How can the paladin/gladiator keep up?

Yoshida Naoki: We are going to make sure to do everything to get the balance right and then we are going to make adjustments to that. For example, the marauder is going to be a really strong attacker, but we don’t want to spoil all the gladiator’s tank positional skills.

http://www.bluegartr.com/archive/ind.../t-107491.html

the marauder is going to be a really strong attacker, but we don’t want to spoil all the gladiator’s tank positional skills.

Literally nothing in this quote implies either "paladins will be main tanks" or "warriors will be off tanks"