Defiance still lacking in comparison to Shield Oath

[Deroth]

The funniest part of this thread is that when I first saw it it was right next to a thread of healers talking about which tank they prefer to heal/work with...when I read that thread most were either on the WAR bandwagon or felt the only difference was the player not PLD vs WAR.

[Derza]

Why is it every time someone wants to complain about warrior needing more heals from the healers they compare the damage reductions that paladins have to the ones warriors have and totally ignore all the self heals warriors have? Sure a warrior will take more damage... but they also get 15% more from being healed and can heal themselves a lot... I just hit 50 and I've been able to get several self heals from inner beast that heal me for 2200-2400 with berserk (normally they are 1000-1600). You just need to time them and use them right after you take a big hit... and you have a skill that gives you 5 stacks of wrath instantly so if you really need to you can do it 2 times in 2.5 secs... And if you just make sure you keep up bloodbath every time its off cooldown you can easily offset the difference the pld has in mitigation, it just takes a bit more err i hate to say it... player skill, the potential is there for warrior.

[Coramac]

And if you just make sure you keep up bloodbath every time its off cooldown you can easily offset the difference the pld has in mitigation, it just takes a bit more err i hate to say it... player skill, the potential is there for warrior.

Paladins can use Bloodbath too. Granted, they deal less damage, but it results in a marginal difference.

[Coramac]

I'm not at the FFXIV end game but I've done a whole lot of raiding and end game content.

Shield Oath increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by the same. Defiance increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by a scaling amount with a buff without 100% up time by up to 15%. The advantage the Warrior has is less frequent over but it comes solely due to the fact that that heals are less effective.

Unless Paladins get less HP per point of Vit excluding Warrior Defiance. That would change a lot, but I don't have a Paladin.

[Derza]

I'm not at the FFXIV end game but I've done a whole lot of raiding and end game content.

Shield Oath increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by the same. Defiance increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by a scaling amount with a buff without 100% up time by up to 15%. The advantage the Warrior has is less frequent over but it comes solely due to the fact that that heals are less effective.

Unless Paladins get less HP per point of Vit excluding Warrior Defiance. That would change a lot, but I don't have a Paladin.

Isn't shield Oath 20% not 25%?

Paladins can use Bloodbath too. Granted, they deal less damage, but it results in a marginal difference.

Well yea... its inner beast, second wind, Thrill of battle, and Storm's path, but those are used after big hits and what not... i was just saying to keep bloodbath up... and its 30 seconds for warrior and 15 seconds for paladin so not really the same.

Oh and also you need to factor in that 25% more HP means 25% more passive regeneration (I believe its like 1% of max hp every couple seconds) Just something else that would need to be considered (although its pretty minor).

[allluckys]

Tank dps is relevant especially in tank and spank dps race situations. It goes like this staying alive > holding hate > dps

[Suffur]

Honestly if you playing a tank and even mentioning DPS you have the wrong idea and are playing the wrong class.

I dont know if this was your point, but thats correct. Saying that warriors do more damage should not compensate for the fact that their ability to tank is worse than PLD

[MrFoxx]

Paldin seem to have the superior tanking skills given to them, starting with shield oath but not ending htere. what about their stun being on the global cool down while ours is 30 seconds? We cant keep up in hard modes, people dont want us not because we cant survive, but because we dont bring the same utility to the table.

Improved flash is an aoe blind, but there is no improved overpower? For real? improved overpower providing an aoe damage debuff or armor reduction would be just fine.

Warriors need to be looked at.

[Astalya]

As far as I understood it, WAR is meant to be off tank or AOE tank, and PLD is meant to be the main tank / boss tank.

Has this changed?

[Jahaudant]

Disclaimer: Those damage differences are between a well executed PLD rotation and "just switch to this job for the first time" WAR rotation. Actual gap would easily be larger than that.

Honestly I don't really understand, I can see that WAR might struggle with large trash packs of 4 or more but single target and bosses is far from broken for them.

I would play WAR through Admapor 100% of the time if I could get away from my static for long enough to learn the rotations inside and out. It's easily way better than PLD in that dungeon. Fun fact, I don't even use Shield Oath through half of the Psycheflayer fight, or at all on Doom Wall.

You can't just say WAR has no place in any instance because PLD is better, period. Example, while the mechanics of the Ifrit fight make PLD a better choice, WAR is great for Garuda.