PLD Bonus Stats

[Eliseus]

Thank you for those links Zavier

[LunarRei]

I am not blind, and there has been many tests from p4 even of people saying how much strength does from their tests, sadly, a lot of it is still on the beta forums which is closed. I am also not blind because like I said, just reading the tooltips is good enough to suggest what to do with your 30 points.

This is precisely what I mean. The tooltips don't tell you that you get 8 HP per VIT. They don't tell you how much mitigation you get from STR. The parry and block ratings don't even tell you what they mean other than higher is better. Testing told us that 1 VIT = x HP and 1 STR = x Parry/Block rating. So, no, the tooltips didn't tell you anything. Testing did.

However, the amount of testing from 4 days of beta is not sufficient to determine stat weightings.

Don't take what I say out of context being 50 and try to use it to successfully argue your point of view.

I would never!!!

like you said though, you aren't 50, so you don't know this
Just because you aren't 50
how things are at 50
you not being 50
Can we get someone in here that at least reads what abilities do or [sic] 50

Have to agree with Eliseus. You can take 1.0 for example where a bigger HP pool is better than any other stats for tanks.

This isn't Kansas anymore though, right? Can't we hope that they actually tried to fix broken systems?

snip

I'll take a look. Data is good. My entire point is that one should not hastily draw conclusions and say HP is ALWAYS better. It's not. Too much health is pointless.

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Sorry, I was trying to save my reply space... and now I've ran out... ugh! Posting limits for noobs sucks...

I don't understand what you are trying to do here Lunar except be difficult for no reason. All the math and testing points to Vit being better as well as common sense says it should be better. The burden of proof is on you if you disagree and I have not seen one thing come from any of your rambling to say otherwise. It doesn't matter one bit that you aren't 50 but that doesn't mean you aren't wrong either.

Do you seriously believe Str is a better stat right now? If so explain why.

I've never said that STR is better, only that we don't know for sure and that pumping VIT by default is not necessarily a good idea. It is not common sense that higher HP is always better and I'll explain why below. Oh, and I really hate Stoneskin and will always vigorously fight against using it in its current form.

Think of it like this: is a THM with 10,000 HP a good tank? No way! Even with that many HP, their ability to mitigate damage is so weak that the healer will have to spam heals to keep them alive. If the received DPS is greater than the HPS output of the healer, then they will be outpaced and if the fight does not end quickly, the tank will die. If the DPS and HPS more closely match, then this can strain a healers MP which in long fights (possibly, hopefully, endgame) will lead to loss through attrition.

Conversely, if you have a PLD that mitigates ALL (w/ resistances) damage at 90% (what is cap in this game? 90% seemed like a sufficiently high number), but only had 500 HP, that would also be of little use. This would handcuff the healer as all of their investments and spell power would be wasted but would also make the PLD incapable of handling burst damage or successive hits for too long since the healer has to keep the PLD capped on HP for him to stay alive between CD's.

So what does that mean? Well, we start creeping more toward the middle with more reasonable HP numbers and high, but not excessive, defense ratings and resistances. It is when we hit this middle ground that each point starts to show its true value. We have these 30 points and materia to play with, so it is worth paying attention to when the diminishing returns start to bounce between HP and defense.

How much HP is enough to give the healer some breathing room and allow you to get through some burst while the healer might have to aoe heal instead of focus?
How much mitigation is enough to where each point of defense or block is better spent on the extra 8 HP?
What fights are you building for and what enemies are you going to face?

To me, and the people I protect, it is a much more important decision than just saying "meh, HP".

I guess my question to you all is, how much health does your GLA (were job crystals available to you legacy in p4? if so, what numbers were your PLD's pushing?) have at 50 and does 240 more make that big of a difference? From what I am seeing, maybe so. But I'll never take somebody's word for it. (Hint: that makes the question rhetorical.)

Elisius: the discussion is good and should be had every time SE adjusts stat weights. Never close your mind to the idea that there might be better options than the obvious.

[Eliseus]

Snip

You really didn't get me mocking you because you tried arguing things for end game without ever doing it at all (and essentially implying to everyone that you really have no idea what you are saying and you aren't 50 yet so that is why), I know technically no one has, but people were able to base a lot of opinions off of at least higher lvl mobs, which in case, you couldn't. I call straw man. :P

Have to keep editing my post since you just don't post new replies lol.

Anyways, the only time IIRC stating that HP is ALWAYS better is when it comes to mitigation vs spells since you can't parry/block/doge.

If you can find any other time, I will gladly admit fault and apologize since that would be foolish of me.

Also

You are right, mitigation is usually best, but we are talking about these 30 points, and you are presenting arguments that really don't exist in FFXIV anymore of what is better vit or str, because besides the 30points, there really isn't much room anymore to have different pieces of gear etc.

before you look, just to make sure you do see that I did say this.

[Vire]

I don't understand what you are trying to do here Lunar except be difficult for no reason. All the math and testing points to Vit being better as well as common sense says it should be better. The burden of proof is on you if you disagree and I have not seen one thing come from any of your rambling to say otherwise. It doesn't matter one bit that you aren't 50 but that doesn't mean you aren't wrong either.

Do you seriously believe Str is a better stat right now? If so explain why.

[Keramory]

Current theories suggest that Str and Dex are more important then Vit. Vit only raises HP, not actual defense. Might be more useful for War but really...you're going to get enough vit with gear. STR is currently the most important or one of the most important due to damage migration.

Edit- wow didnt see this becoming a all out war when I posted my reply. I still stand by it but I'm not getting sucked into it sorry >.> It was based off a few threads I saw on Beta, my own experience (I have 50 in everything so I can be ultra elitist too...yay), and forums elsewhere.

Reality is, those 30 points are not insanely important. Put them in Str or Vit, but it wont matter too much. Not to sound hippy but it both helps with tanking, your role. I still stand by the Str but I'll have to see the changes in release myself. Reason is for migration AND for a small boost in weapon damage, something a paladin needs to think about, because sadly we're not warriors and cannot do their damage. Only time I would go out of my way to stack vit would be if a monster hit to the point where I need the HP to survive a special move or ability that I wont risk my shield with...or simply goes outside my shields block (as I remember some enemy bosses could do that in 1.0). Although quite honestly in that case I'd just go on my mrd anyway >.>

[waka_swag]

2/3 to VIT 1/3 to STR! ...at least that's what I started doing already <_<

[TirionCrey]

@Eliseus: I get your points and they are all valid. But in all honesty. Without endgame experience, parsing etc. there is no way of knowing what stat is gonna be the most efficient for endgame. I agree that a bigger HP pool is overall beneficial. But let's say an endgame boss hits you for 1k of DMG a hit, passive damage mitigation will be overtaking 450HP over the long haul of a fight easily regardless of the skills that benefit from HP pool. But as I said, even that should be taken with a grain of salt...cause w/o actual endgame experience/parsing, there is no way of knowing for sure.

PS: All I can say from my PoV is though...STR is prolly gonna be least interesting stat for stat allocation (unless you are able to hit the next tier of block percentage putting in a few points)

[Sabyn]

I'm curious as to why no one's considered VIT = STR? Based on what I've read on these three pages, it seems to me that keeping VIT and STR equal would provide the balance of having a sufficient enough HP pool to survive burst damage from spells that can't be dodged/parried/blocked, while at the same time allowing for a GLD/PLD to generate enough threat from abilities, damage output, and HP pool.

I mean, I could be totally wrong in my understanding of the game mechanics, but, this is just my two cents. And let me make this clear, I'm not going to respond to troll posts and attacks for having an opinion. That kind of BS is for WoW and Blizz's Forums. Not SE and FFXIV.

[Myric]

I'm curious as to why no one's considered VIT = STR? Based on what I've read on these three pages, it seems to me that keeping VIT and STR equal would provide the balance of having a sufficient enough HP pool to survive burst damage from spells that can't be dodged/parried/blocked, while at the same time allowing for a GLD/PLD to generate enough threat from abilities, damage output, and HP pool.

I mean, I could be totally wrong in my understanding of the game mechanics, but, this is just my two cents. And let me make this clear, I'm not going to respond to troll posts and attacks for having an opinion. That kind of BS is for WoW and Blizz's Forums. Not SE and FFXIV.

On the previous page there are some charts linked. When you look at them, you'll see the huge amounts of str, like 40something, to reach one tier and then 70 something to reach the next. 15 points of str will be a waste with these amounts. Now if it wasn't tiers like 21% 22% etc and gave an increase per point like 21.1% 21.2% etc, then str might be more of an option. For now, Vitality is your biggest bang per point.

[VanWulfen]

Put all your points into vitality on GLA/PLD for stat allocation for now.