Pipe Dreams: Expanding the healer pool

[Duelle]

The original topic was alternative ideas future jobs that can fill a healers role and the different ways in which they can do it.

I don't want 4 jobs that specialize in healing magic and cure spells, just as i dont want 4 jobs that specialise in hand to hand combat

As I see it, WHM would still be built around White Magic. CHM would be built around their potions and healing bullets. GRM would be built around their HoTs, which would be considered Green Magic. I don't think there would or should be any true overlaps between them spell-wise or mechanic-wise.

[Daniolaut]

I'm sorry if it appears that I tried to make you look whiny and naive. I do believe there have been a number of people on this thread who have been whiny and naive, and I was intending to refer to them. Quoting you was simply to provide the context leading to my observation of the others.

It's true that I didn't play much CNJ/WHM in 1.0. That was mostly from a lack of time.

Long story short: I was so displeased at how 1.0 had originally shipped that I had written it off entirely. Then, I ran into a fan while waiting in line to get into the Final Fantasy 25th Anniversary Party, the one in Seattle during PAX Prime. That fan convinced me to try 1.0 again. I re-subbed at the beginning of September 2012 and played until the End of an Era event (including trying to suffer through all the disconnect problems during that event). However, there just wasn't enough time for me to raise multiple classes and complete the storyline and Grand Company quests that I wanted to finish. I had originally chosen to raise DRG because of my great fondness for Kain from FFIV, and was using that class to complete quests until the final character save.

I did raise WHM in FFXI, and my impressions of CNJ/WHM in 1.0 were that it was very similar. That may be an erroneous conclusion, my sig tells all that really needs to be said about how little progress I made into actually experiencing WHM in 1.0 as opposed to just playing with WHMs.

The point I would like to convey is simply that it is possible to create a balanced alternative to the WHM which is aesthetically different, and this may attract more players to healing roles.

Your perspective may have been that there enough healers in 1.0. Several people on this thread would beg to differ, and I would be inclined to agree after struggling multiple times to find someone willing to go WHM for the sake of the party. As from the expandable section above, my own experience is limited, so I'm relying more on the experience of other players who may have played for longer than I did.

Clearly, 2.0 will feature a different set of mechanics. It's hard to know how WHM will change without being the beta. Whether nothing changes or whether everything changes may be irrelevant anyways, though, because it turns out that aesthetics matter, in and of themselves. They do.

Finally, there is a canonical example of a job from Final Fantasy that I think would fit well into a restorative role: Chemist. Other posters have commented on this, already, so I didn't feel it was strongly necessary to repeat them.

Chemists have historically doubled the effectiveness of healing items in the single-player entries of the franchise, and their Throw command in the Tactics series is invaluable for making sure healing items get to the characters that need them most. Truthfully, whether we're talking about the FFV flavor, Tactics flavor, Rikku from FFX, or the Chemist dress sphere from FFX-2, I've always thought of Chemists as healers first, a complement to WHMs (though the FFX-2 Chemist was flat out superior, in my mind, once you had Mega-potion trained). True, Chemists typically have offensive capabilities as well. I don't see how structuring them to be mostly restoration-oriented in XIV in order to provide a different option for playing a role is that much different from giving the WHMs access to Stone, Aero, and other offensive spells out of due consideration for their need to defend themselves when soloing. WHMs, after all, have historically been dedicated healers, with the exception of White/Holy at the endgame, and Dia/Harm for fighting undead.

So a strict view of Final Fantasy tradition was already broken for WHMs in XI. It hardly seems fair to disallow a little leeway for other jobs.

Fair enough. I see your view point.

I am open minded to more healing roles, but I personally would just not like to see another job that is specific to just healing. Its just not part of the uniqueness that the Final Fantasy name has created, and deviating from that uniqueness, to follow suit of other MMO's just isnt like SE.

Square-Enix needs to find a balance of new features, Final Fantasy tradition and incorporating what is popular in other RPG's. Final Fantasy XIV is going to, most likely, be that Final Fantasy that either creates it, or brings the series down. I doubt FF will completely dissolve anytime soon, but XIV has a lot ridding on it. I'm sure everyone is aware of it.

[Duelle]

I am open minded to more healing roles, but I personally would just not like to see another job that is specific to just healing. Its just not part of the uniqueness that the Final Fantasy name has created, and deviating from that uniqueness, to follow suit of other MMO's just isnt like SE.

By the same token, uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness never leads to anything good. The main thing is moderation and understanding where the rules should be bent and what parts of the concept don't work in the frame of an MMORPG and should thus be pushed aside for the good of the game.

Party dynamics would greatly benefit with more options per role, as it increases the chance of people picking up roles like tanking and healing, which are already difficult to fill. A guy may want to try tanking but doesn't like WAR and doesn't like PLD, but may like SAM or BST and would enter the tank pool through one of those. Someone may want to try healing but doesn't like WHM, but may find ORL or CHM appealing because of their mechanics and enter the healer pool through one of them. As I said earlier, the community stands to win with more variety in-game.

[Judge_Xero]

As I see it, WHM would still be built around White Magic. CHM would be built around their potions and healing bullets. GRM would be built around their HoTs, which would be considered Green Magic. I don't think there would or should be any true overlaps between them spell-wise or mechanic-wise.

Healing bullets - baahahahah - dirty

Chemist would be awesome. Hi-Potion, Mega-Potion, Sleep Potion.
Ability to Throw - Reduced Cooldowns on Items - Ability to use any item on Players (Mega Potion of INT,VIT)

The bad: Cost per fight - consumeables.

I think it would be the best alternative to WHM, and an excellent support class. -> Chemist sleep that mob - kapow Sleep Potion. Ok -heal the tank - Elixer

(sorry for the Batman sound effects)

[Klive]

The bad: Cost per fight - consumeables.

The whole cost to play a class, besides repairs, will not happen. SE already removed arrows from archer/bards in 2.0. I doubt they will ever make a similar mechanic.

[Duelle]

Healing bullets

Yes, healing bullets. Not as farfetched as it seems, though it's funny that someone out there heard the joke about healing rangers "l0lz wut cna th3y sh00t?! arr0wz th4t he4l??!?!?!?!", and then went and actually made a class that could heal their allies by shooting at them. XD

/inbeforeOMGthatsnotFFidontwantithere!!!!

[Alaltus]

Yes, healing bullets. Not as farfetched as it seems, though it's funny that someone out there heard the joke about healing rangers "l0lz wut cna th3y sh00t?! arr0wz th4t he4l??!?!?!?!", and then went and actually made a class that could heal their allies by shooting at them. XD

/inbeforeOMGthatsnotFFidontwantithere!!!!

For me they would have to do a good job of making the Healing shot seem magical in nature rather than blazing bullets at people. Why i would probbably prefer a more Cannoneer like Chemist, slow wide radius bursts of alchemical power. Wanna see Mix show up in some form too.

[Dzian]

Maybe the bullets are filled with adrenalin that makes your character RAWR!!!!

[Mychael]

This argument is just a re-hash of "WHM should be onry healer because I say so".

1. I never said a new healer shouldn't have a diverse array of healing powers.
2. The new, larger, 24-character content will almost certainly require multiple healers.
3. I would observe that the WHM already is a specialized healer, casting single-target heals and casting targeted AoE damage mitigation. (There might have been a small AoE on its heals, but it's small enough that standing 90 degrees to a monster will put you outside of it.) If you want targeted AoE HoTs, you want the BRD, though that's a far cry from primary healing.

You're free to disagree, but your arguments are just a re-hash of "WHM should not be onry healer because I say so."

Or have only one kind of HP to keep from depleting. You're forgetting damage mitigation, siphoning, defensive triggers, modes of healing, borrows, reversals, any manner of ability or style of ability that keeps people from dying. Curative magic has its own style. It's quick, powerful, easily re-sized. If Conjurer's (or by extension WHM) also made more out of their light elements, those two could be used for damage mitigation, between the offensive (interrupting casts via ARR Water) and defensive (creating earth shields on allies or a whirl of air to intercept ranged attacks, so and and so forth). Having another style of healing will not kill WHM. Having another curative healer would likely get close, just as having another fist-fighter would put Pugilist in a hard position to remain unique.

Actually I suggested those kinds of things a few pages ago. I was just answering the question.

[IndigoDarkwolf]

Tu quoque

Although I suppose a better argument earlier on my part would have been to point out that singling out my reference to HoTs as though it invalidated my entire argument was very strawman and black and white.

For my part, I got distracted and forgot that we're sort of on the same side of the fence.

TL;DR: By all means, add another healer.

So, I'm sorry. Though I do still think that, asides from that, you sounded as though you want WHM to have every type of heal possible and be the only healing job, just because.

Edit: We're probably at some kind of impasse, which I guess is the whole problem with arguing on the internet: Nobody wins, everyone loses.