Necromancer: Discussion of the dead

[faris]

This begs the question whether or not you understand or even read through the THM storyline...

You mean the Ul'dah storyline, right.

[yoshikwalla]

...Wow, this escalated rather quickly. I guess I'll throw in my thoughts, then? Though I'm a bit hesitant to give it given the fact that for the last 3 pages you've been ripping each other's heads off. /readies flame shield

...Why not add Necromancy? The ability to turn defeated, non-boss enemies into undead thralls sounds awesome. Yes, they are generally considered as enemy classes, but that doesn't mean players shouldn't play as them. Not all players want to be the goody two-shoes "Teh warrieh oph laiiiighhhttt" generic good guys, and the game shouldn't force them into that role.

Necromancy is bad? Let it be bad. Let the players be bad if they want to. It sure would make for an interesting job questline. It's about time FFXIV embraced the antihero. Necromancers, Thieves, Ninjas, Assassins, Dark Knights, and the like.

Is it Final Fantasy-ish? Not really, but that shouldn't be an excuse not to add something. Yes, this is a Final Fantasy game, but the fact that it is shouldn't limit the game on what should be added. That makes for a creative nightmare. If the same mindset that people are now showing existed around Final Fantasy's infancy, then Cecil wouldn't have been a Dark Knight, the Onion Knight would have never existed, Final Fantasy Tactics would have been less interesting, Lightning wouldn't be a badass L'Cie, Cloud wouldn't be putting Materia onto his gear, Final Fantasy XII wouldn't have badass Star Wars ships, Laguna wouldn't use a gun, Final Fantasy XI would have but a few classes, and the series wouldn't fucking progress. This is a series that's based on putting new things into the Final Fantasy Formula, even pre-FFVII.

[Reika]

...Wow, this escalated rather quickly. I guess I'll throw in my thoughts, then? Though I'm a bit hesitant to give it given the fact that for the last 3 pages you've been ripping each other's heads off. /readies flame shield

...Why not add Necromancy? The ability to turn defeated, non-boss enemies into undead thralls sounds awesome. Yes, they are generally considered as enemy classes, but that doesn't mean players shouldn't play as them. Not all players want to be the goody two-shoes "Teh warrieh oph laiiiighhhttt" generic good guys, and the game shouldn't force them into that role.

Necromancy is bad? Let it be bad. Let the players be bad if they want to. It sure would make for an interesting job questline. It's about time FFXIV embraced the antihero. Necromancers, Thieves, Ninjas, Assassins, Dark Knights, and the like.

Is it Final Fantasy-ish? Not really, but that shouldn't be an excuse not to add something. Yes, this is a Final Fantasy game, but the fact that it is shouldn't limit the game on what should be added. That makes for a creative nightmare. If the same mindset that people are now showing existed around Final Fantasy's infancy, then Cecil wouldn't have been a Dark Knight, the Onion Knight would have never existed, Final Fantasy Tactics would have been less interesting, Lightning wouldn't be a badass L'Cie, Cloud wouldn't be putting Materia onto his gear, Final Fantasy XII wouldn't have badass Star Wars ships, Laguna wouldn't use a gun, Final Fantasy XI would have but a few classes, and the series wouldn't fucking progress. This is a series that's based on putting new things into the Final Fantasy Formula, even pre-FFVII.

That is something important to put into the brain too. Every FF game since the first one has had something Different about it than the last. Even XI had jobs that didn't exsist in other FF games. Thats how FF games Have always been. Something new every time. Systems you weren't use to. Enemies you've never seen before. Final Fantasy is whatever the hell they can think of, not X or Y. Its everything. PLD is FF, WHM is FF, NEC is FF.

[Laume]

...Wow, this escalated rather quickly. I guess I'll throw in my thoughts, then? Though I'm a bit hesitant to give it given the fact that for the last 3 pages you've been ripping each other's heads off. /readies flame shield

...Why not add Necromancy? The ability to turn defeated, non-boss enemies into undead thralls sounds awesome. Yes, they are generally considered as enemy classes, but that doesn't mean players shouldn't play as them. Not all players want to be the goody two-shoes "Teh warrieh oph laiiiighhhttt" generic good guys, and the game shouldn't force them into that role.

Necromancy is bad? Let it be bad. Let the players be bad if they want to. It sure would make for an interesting job questline. It's about time FFXIV embraced the antihero. Necromancers, Thieves, Ninjas, Assassins, Dark Knights, and the like.

Is it Final Fantasy-ish? Not really, but that shouldn't be an excuse not to add something. Yes, this is a Final Fantasy game, but the fact that it is shouldn't limit the game on what should be added. That makes for a creative nightmare. If the same mindset that people are now showing existed around Final Fantasy's infancy, then Cecil wouldn't have been a Dark Knight, the Onion Knight would have never existed, Final Fantasy Tactics would have been less interesting, Lightning wouldn't be a badass L'Cie, Cloud wouldn't be putting Materia onto his gear, Final Fantasy XII wouldn't have badass Star Wars ships, Laguna wouldn't use a gun, Final Fantasy XI would have but a few classes, and the series wouldn't fucking progress. This is a series that's based on putting new things into the Final Fantasy Formula, even pre-FFVII.

I'll put in my 2 cents to. IMHO (and this is just an opinion, not a fact in any way shape or form.) the lack of necormancy and/or the approach to jobs that FF has had is what separates FF from all the other rpg's in made in the western hemisphere. All the other rpg's have had this feeling like... it's hard to quantify... like power and greed is what works and what is good. Save only whom you care for, screw everyone else. Play a hero that can be the scum of the earth. While that's fine for some people, for me, final fantasy has always been a series where it highlights the best in humanity and friendship. Where I can take a break from all the doom and gloom of regular life. So I personally wouldn't like to see a necromancer (unless they find a REALLY good way to doing it. Pretty much redefining the necromancer that we all know of.)

With that said, Yoshiwalla is right in some aspects. Well, a lot of aspects. I would say that Cecil being a dark knight was required because he was the embodiment of rebirth (from dark knight to paladin). With that said, final fantasy did redefine Shiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva), Odin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin), Ifrit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifrit), Bahamut, Leviathan, etc, etc, etc. Heck, what was blue mage before FF made it up? I mean, who here thought bards used arrows like bad-@ss before ff14? I was stuck using daggers, staves and singing in ff11. So, ultimately, I'll leave it up to the fans and the devs to decide about necromancer. I only ask that dark knight be done before necromancer does. And yes, I do want to see all the 1.0 original thm spells back in the game.

[Reika]

I'll put in my 2 cents to. IMHO (and this is just an opinion, not a fact in any way shape or form.) the lack of necormancy and/or the approach to jobs that FF has had is what separates FF from all the other rpg's in made in the western hemisphere. All the other rpg's have had this feeling like... it's hard to quantify... like power and greed is what works and what is good. Save only whom you care for, screw everyone else. Play a hero that can be the scum of the earth. While that's fine for some people, for me, final fantasy has always been a series where it highlights the best in humanity and friendship. Where I can take a break from all the doom and gloom of regular life. So I personally wouldn't like to see a necromancer (unless they find a REALLY good way to doing it. Pretty much redefining the necromancer that we all know of.)

With that said, Yoshiwalla is right in some aspects. Well, a lot of aspects. I would say that Cecil being a dark knight was required because he was the embodiment of rebirth (from dark knight to paladin). With that said, final fantasy did redefine Shiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva), Odin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin), Ifrit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifrit), Bahamut, Leviathan, etc, etc, etc. Heck, what was blue mage before FF made it up? I mean, who here thought bards used arrows like bad-@ss before ff14? I was stuck using daggers, staves and singing in ff11. So, ultimately, I'll leave it up to the fans and the devs to decide about necromancer. I only ask that dark knight be done before necromancer does. And yes, I do want to see all the 1.0 original thm spells back in the game.

Of course in an RPG game, its natural for you to be the hero, weather youre a goody goody hero or a dark hero. RPG's like Infamous show how you could easily perform good actions, bad actions, or a combination of both to meet the same end - save the world.

A mod has commented that the devs themselves were thinking about a quest that you go through to change from PLD to DRK in FFXIV, thus losing the ability to be PLD. That would still be representing rebirth, in the other direction. It is a direction I would gladly go in if they did that. I kinda agree that they should add DRK before NEC, but it wouldn't be bad to see them both at the same time as a darkness package.

[valetarkus]

I think it's pretty cool idea! And it does fit in with the story. I read someone said it should only be for an enemy...c'mon. It's a video game. The programmers and creators make the rules. Limitations kill creativity.

[Duuude007]

Limitations kill creativity.

Lack of balance kills quality. Its a double-edged sword.


Again Im not saying no, Im saying it needs a profound niche to fill. One not already reserved for another job.

[valetarkus]

You have White Mage and Black Mage. Paladin and Dark Knight (DRK not in FFXIV I know, yet) And you have summoner and it's opposite Necromancer. I feel like necromancer would just be The Summoners opposite. Just a thought.