Paladin vs Warrior - ARR better set roles!

[Reika]

In the future of ARR however, there will need to be more tank Jobs that are balanced to not have to chose one over the other. There could be 20 Jobs some time in the future, and even I would like more than one of them to be able to tank effectively. However, they cant do it like they did it with Paladin and warrior...

Needs to be more than one healer class too lol.

[Quatre]

Alright... I'm surprised at the lack of Career Paladin input in this thread.

There is this GIANT misconception that PLD is bad. PLD was easily the strongest class in 1.0...


The IDEAL tank would have both Warrior and Paladin leveled. the problem with Paladin had more so to do with how overpowered white mages where. Along with how avoidable certain boss mechanics where by moving. On coincounter you can lock down almost all of his abilities just by dodging them, and do higher damage on Warrior. Why would you do this on Paladin when the DMG capability of warrior is so great? ( Curtana PLD dmg is quite respectable too, btw. If you explore PLD forums there are parsers of garuda kills with the PLD doing about as much as BLM )


PLD AOE threat was the best in the game, I have no clue why anyone would complain about this. As was their single target thread. They don't have the intial burst of threat inherent to warrior, but through proper spirits within, self heals, blocks, two provokes, their threat was easily far superior.


TLDR:

PLD Is really fucking good, the content is just catered to be more flexible when it comes to tank. When it's 6 man content that's more than okay.

Oh, and go poke around in the PLD/GLA forums. there is a lot of min/maxing you guys seem to be ignorant of. PLD was more than capable to tank everything in the game in every situation. It was simply designed so that a warrior could hold their own and succeed too. (Except for extreme end-game, Ifrit Extreme/Hardmode Darnuss- A WAR cant keep themselves up through the 3 WS phase, nor can they block his DEF down move.)

[Reika]

But you must have one stance active at all times. Another thing was WAR was broken with that one crazy HP tap thing they did. Activate that and use Whirlwind or whatever in CC and boom! Full HP and a shitton of aggro. BRO-KEN!

Yea, I touched on that in a different thread. That HP drain should have been restricted to MRD and used for soloing imo, or nerfed for warrior and better for MRD. They really dont have a Defender skill anymore tho. Rampage does not negatively impact offensive capability at all, in fact it increases it it with increased attack speed and the ability to gain HP from critical hits. Thats one of the flaws.

[Zezlar]

Zezlar you are having a problem understanding what 'equal' means. They both perform equally well in their role as tank. HOW they perform it is irrelevant. A Warrior's higher DPS has to be factored in his tanking ability as well as a Paladin's mitigation is factored in his tanking ability, they tank through different methods, but equally as efficiently. If the Warrior is 'always the top choice' something must be done to either Warrior or Paladin.

I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding of what "equal" means. Equal implies that you want them to be 1:1 with each other in terms of stats, and abilities. A better term you're looking for is probably "balanced."

[Andrien]

I don't agree that there need to be more than two tank jobs. PLD isn't good at anything else but....tanking.

[Reika]

I don't agree that there need to be more than two tank jobs. PLD isn't good at anything else but....tanking.

They can always go the WoW route with paladin......... lol.

Which I wouldn't mind btw.

[Kinseykinz]

The only reason this topic even exists is because the community in general didn't keep up with the WAR and PLD updates. PLD is a very desirable tank...so is WAR, but for different reasons. The only discrepancy still left between the roles is while WAR can tank it can fill the role of basic DD. PLD's don't get quite the same flexibility...but that is okay because PLD's are Tanking Specialists, whereas Warriors are supposed to be 'All around fighters'

This said, by the end of 1.0, most content ran more smoothly with PLD assuming the role of Main Tank and WAR's being either DD's or off-tanks. People just got so hung up on Parcers and DPS they completely mis-judged PLD...PLD's can take an amazing amount of damage AND mitigate an fair amount of damage the party would otherwise eat with some of their party buffs etc. But this comes at the cost of their own personal damage. But a party consisting of PLD/WHM/DD'sX6 puts out crazy damage, while gaining extra survivability.

Plus, we don't know what jobs will be introduced in the future, but I would be willing to bet the GLA class WILL spawn a DD job one day of some type.

And PLD friends: sometimes it just feels like no one is inviting PLD's when in fact, they are. Like WHM, it's a 'we only need one in a party' role...and once a party/ls has recruited a solid Tank and Healer, they don't get replaced often. Whereas other DPS like roles, can be filled by a variety of classes/jobs. The blessing/curse of being a 'specialist'.

[Skies]

I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding of what "equal" means. Equal implies that you want them to be 1:1 with each other in terms of stats, and abilities. A better term you're looking for is probably "balanced."

"They both have to perform equally well in their role regardless of how they do", whatever that ACTUALLY means. I'm only a weekend game tinkerer and even then i'm pretty derpy. Doesn't matters if it's called balance or equality, that's the meaning I tried to come across.

Both should be perfectly equally capable of tanking, but have very distinct styles in how they do that. I have this wild idea on my head on how it should be but it would take us nowhere to discuss concrete ideas right now, we're both beyond and before the point where they'd be helpful, right now let's stick to a more meta-level and, once we've seen what is going on for real we can discuss more concrete, down to the earth ideas such as "WAR HP is in a roller coaster while the PLD HP doesn't budges" and other similar things.

[razz]

If we have more than one DPS job, why shouldn't we have the choice of 2 different tanks? We never cared about Tank being PLD or WAR, just what the Tank used to play and having proper equipment.

[Firon]

PLD dmg was not piss poor once they buffed its ws dmg and lowered the cool down on Spiritswithin, you would be surprised how much pld and war do the same amount of dmg to a single target.

Only thing war had over pld it was able to hold more hate vs more mobs cause of Steel Derpclone.