Paladin vs Warrior - ARR better set roles!

[Hyrist]

lolwut? i.. what?

You heard me. There was flatly more HP to play around with on your average Warrior.

Yes, paladins had the extra defense, but Nael still hit hard regardless and more than once the Paladins would dip into the red where a warrior would be orange/yellow from a similar attack.

Paladin's higher defence and self curing meant less work for the White Mage, but their HP seemed much more volitle in terms of risk.

Your mileage may vary, as you were in the top 5% of all players, but I was playing with pick-up groups.

That's part of being a dps, you were doing it right.

The dps mentality of DPS DPS DPS DPS, for some situations it's fine when you "have" to get things done before death comes knocking but dps should always be paying attention to there situation, others situations and their hate control in battle. Sounds to me like your just doing your job right unlike many that seemingly want to burn through content as fast as possible and think we tanks can compensate for their stupidity.

There is a timer to concern yourself with as well. And while I know to lower my DPS to compensate for lacking in hate management (on my end or his) it also means I'm doing less and we're using up more than the timer. Now, if we go ahead and make the timer all is well and good. But I like having a wide margin for error.

To put it bluntly, if I had to cut power surge to keep my hate from out pacing the tank, there's a problem. That was a problem I had with Warriors. I can't recall a time I had that problem with Paladins.

In trade, I have seen a Warrior survive situations where a Paladin died in similar circumstances. I attribute this mainly due to the larger HP pool, not due to better defensive measures.

Which there it is. It's a matter of preference. I do believe both camps underestimate one another during this argument, and my hopes for SE is that they've created battles that involve both jobs. We've 8 party slots and 8 jobs. No reason why not to think up ways each job can contribute in a unique way each fight. It only gets tough to juggle once we start adding more.

I don't think each classes base capabilities need to be radically changed to achieve this, so much as performance tweaking (upwards) to make each class feel strong enough in the given circumstance, while still feeling challenged. Which isn't hard if they keep with the multi-objective based gameplay they've trended so far.

[BumblebeeTuna]

At the end everything I did it was Warrior. Every dungeon it was ask for a warrior, Garuda, King Moogle, Ifrit was ask for a warrior. The only battle I did not see a warrior all the time maybe 50/50 was Raven. The only one for sure that was ask for a Paladin that I ever did was Hamlet Defense since Paladin could heal himself.

My LS did speed runs with whatever our tank felt like playing..war or pld didnt matter they were both fine. Hard mode darnus was PLD as was ifrit extreme...PLD was quite good actually and more fun to play than war imo. war was definately not the end all be all of tanking.

Also if you had good crowd control from blms and drgs it didnt matter if you had a pld cause half the time wars didnt even get a steel cyclone off before the groups were dead. And pld aoe flash was nice for grabbing groups.

[Ricky]

WAR was not the end all, be all tank towards the end of 1.0. What are you smoking OP? Please pass it this way.

It was the tank of choice for the majority of the game leaving the solely tank class on the sidelines, which is why people still discuss ways to avoid it in the future

[fusional]

It was the tank of choice for the majority of the game leaving the solely tank class on the sidelines, which is why people still discuss ways to avoid it in the future

then the majority of the game community was smoking some pretty potent stuff, and/or the majority of the game community never actually did anything in the game after... may?

[Enma]

With Beta test just around the coner, I want to play tank but on 1.0 Warrior was it and nothing else. The difference in defense and hp between Paladin and Warrior were minimal. Every party and dungeon run was always a Warrior. Paladin was for the most part a unwanted class for endgame content. So I though to bring these up and see what people would like to see in ARR for Paladin and Warrior.

This is not right. The hardest fights of 1.0 version (Darnus Hard and Ifrit Extreme) needed a Paladin. Cutter's Cry needed it too. It's harder to use than Warrior but it's far more flexible. You could use Warrior too, so I don't see any problem in it.

P.S.
About Defense in version 1.0 it didn't make any difference, really. Ifrit Extreme could hit WHM or PLD for the same amount of damage... It was crazy.

[FedeMax]

This is not right. The hardest fights of 1.0 version (Darnus Hard and Ifrit Extreme) needed a Paladin. Cutter's Cry needed it too. It's harder to use than Warrior but it's far more flexible. You could use Warrior too, so I don't see any problem in it.

P.S.
About Defense in version 1.0 it didn't make any difference, really. Ifrit Extreme could hit WHM or PLD for the same amount of damage... It was crazy.

Ifrit Extreme I did not get a chance to do as to see the difference between WAR and PLD, still that is just one battle out of everything 1.0 had that requier a party and every speed run in CC I did with a LS or random group a WAR was ask. The defense between the 2 was so minimun that everyone prefer the DPS of a WAR than the Defense of a PLD.

[Reika]

I agree than WAR should be more of a DPS choice than a Tank choice. It has more HP and offensive ability than paladin, but should have less defense ability than paladin. A paladins extra defense was more from the blocking abilities, but it needs more passive defense, not merely active defense. Blocking also imo really didn't block enough damage nor often enough, that could stand to be touched up on as well.

[Naraku_Diabolos]

Just wait until Dark Knight gets released... *snickers* Will we see DRK outdamaging WAR then?

[Altena]

Just wait until Dark Knight gets released... *snickers* Will we see DRK outdamaging WAR then?

If nothing changes,

Yes. Presuming DRK is the job it should be.

[Altena]

We used PLD for pretty much everything, even some trash mobs in a few dungeons. WAR was more of an off tank if our PLD pulled a sicky on us, which was extremely rare.

I do agree though, I would much prefer WAR to turn towards the DD/crowd control end moreso then the tanking end. I did like its position in the closing 1.x days however.

At the end everything I did it was Warrior. Every dungeon it was ask for a warrior, Garuda, King Moogle, Ifrit was ask for a warrior. The only battle I did not see a warrior all the time maybe 50/50 was Raven. The only one for sure that was ask for a Paladin that I ever did was Hamlet Defense since Paladin could heal himself.

TBH the best Warrior I know of on the server couldn't keep hate off decently geared and skilled DD's, compared to a reasonably skilled & geared PLD.