dev1031 You are losing your main playerbase by making things too easy/fast/casual

[Abriael]

What exactly is your point , cause i fail to see one , let me retype it to you , FFXIV is easy.

because you say so?

Tanking is easy.You find it hard, then maybe an IQ test is due.

Besides the usual personal attack, I never said that I find it "hard" (again, misconstruing an argument because you can't counter it isn't exactly a good way to discuss). I said that I find it harder than FFXI. Which it is, for the several reasons I listed, that you still didn't counter once.

We dont have an end game

Who ever talked about end game (besides the fact that we DO have an endgame, we just don't have a sufficent endgame)?

We dont have balanced classes

Very true. That's why they're fixing it. But what does this have to do with difficulty? Besides "absolutely nothing of course".

What is your argument, that keeping guard up and managing stamina is hard, get out of here.Just becouse you find it fun ( and i can acept that completly ) it does not make it hard.

And where exactly did I say it's "hard"? Stamina management requires a degree of awareness. Degree of awareness which is completely absent from FFXI (and most other MMORPGs), and is one of the elements that makes tanking rank & file mobs more challenging than in FFXI, where tanking during normal leveling is a completely routinary exercise.

I never once said that tanking in FFXIV is "hard". I said (and I stand by it), that the *mechanics* of tanking in FFXIV are quite evidently more challenging and require more awareness than those in FFXI.

EVERYONE NEEDS A CHALLENGE.

And who exactly denied this?

[Zkieve]

because you say so?



Besides the usual personal attack, I never said that I find it "hard" (again, misconstruing an argument because you can't counter it isn't exactly a good way to discuss). I said that I find it harder than FFXI. Which it is, for the several reasons I listed, that you still didn't counter once.



Who ever talked about end game (besides the fact that we DO have an endgame, we just don't have a sufficent endgame)?



Very true. That's why they're fixing it. But what does this have to do with difficulty? Besides "absolutely nothing of course".



And where exactly did I say it's "hard"? Stamina management requires a degree of awareness. Degree of awareness which is completely absent from FFXI (and most other MMORPGs), and is one of the elements that makes tanking rank & file mobs more challenging than in FFXI, where tanking during normal leveling is a completely routinary exercise.



And who exactly denied this?

Clearly you have no clue about ffxi , at least pre raise of 75 cap, so further discussion is pointless.
I wish you a good day sir, find some one else to troll.

[Abriael]

Clearly you have no clue about ffxi , at least pre raise of 75 cap, so further discussion is pointless.
I wish you a good day sir, find some one else to troll.

Actually I played FFXI *only* prior to the raise of the 75 cap (for several years since the second month of the Japanese launch), on Ramuh, with the same nickname. What makes the discussion pointless is that you refuse to actually keep the discussion on the level of arguments, and prefer to throw petty personal attacks to try and hide it, like the post I just quoted demonstrates further.
"you don't have a clue", "you suck", "you're ignorant", aren't arguments and add no solidity to your position.

[Zkieve]

Actually I played FFXI *only* prior to the raise of the 75 cap (for several years since the second month of the Japanese launch). What makes the discussion pointless is that you refuse to actually keep the discussion on the level of arguments, and prefer to throw petty personal attacks to try and hide it, like the post I just quoted demonstrates further.
"you don't have a clue", "you suck", "you're ignorant", aren't arguments and add no solidity to your position.

sorry sometimes people cant understand each other solely based on character. You say ffxi is easy and ffxiv hard . I think otherwise.You wont convince me (since i have done everything on ffxiv and almost everythin on ffxi) so keeping this discussion is pointless .Our discussion is solely based on opinions, no point to it. Your opinion about degree of dificulty is diferent than mine . does that makes me better ? not really.Are we beating on a wall by arguing , yea very.

Like i say i enjoy ffxiv to some degree but your everything is awesome in ffxiv is annoying.If you wish of me to take you seriously tell me a few thins you find wrong with ffxiv and perhaps ill try and take you seriously.Until then...this is what i have for you.

[Abriael]

sorry sometimes people cant understand each other solely based on character. You say ffxi is easy and ffxiv hard .

No. While I think that FFXI is a rather easy game (as in difficulty, not as in time spent, but timesinks aren't a degree of difficulty). I just said that the tanking mechanics in FFXIV are more challenging and require an higher level of awareness than in FFXI.
That's quite a lot different than saying that FFXI is easy and FFXIV is hard.

I don't know a single MMORPG that I would define "hard".
Drifting in Gran Turismo 5 is "hard". MMORPGs? Nah...

does that makes me better ? not really.

It seems that you think that it makes me "ignorant", "suck", "in need of an IQ check" or other funny little things like that, though.

If you wish of me to take you seriously tell me a few thins you find wrong with ffxiv and perhaps ill try and take you seriously.

Check my post history in my profile (the one with the threads I opened) and you'll get a glimpse of what I think is wrong with FFXIV (besides the fact that there's not nearly enough content, which I repeated tons of times in this thread itself).

The fact that I reply with some realism to some complaints that I require quite nonsensical and to requests than I deem unrealistic doesn't mean that I don't have complaints of my own.

Fact is that the development team needs to keep things firmly anchored to the ground of realism and not bite more than they can chew, if we want this game to have a shot at becoming successful.

[Zkieve]

No. While I think that FFXI is a rather easy game (as in difficulty, not as in time spent, but timesinks aren't a degree of difficulty). I just said that the tanking mechanics in FFXIV are more challenging and require an higher level of awareness than in FFXI.
That's quite a lot different than saying that FFXI is easy and FFXIV is hard.


It seems that you think that it makes me "ignorant", "suck", "in need of an IQ check" or other funny little things like that, though.



Check my post history in my profile (the one with the threads I opened) and you'll get a glimpse of what I think is wrong with FFXIV (besides the fact that there's not nearly enough content, which I repeated tons of times in this thread itself).

Like i said , ffxi is not easy. ffxiv it is.
Your opinion is yours . Mine is mine.
we both like ffxiv.
what are we arguing about again?Because if its about "opinions" i pass.

I dont got the patience to browse over your 1.5k posts.All i see you is trolling .Im sorry if i cant picture you otherwise. perhaps when you stop arguing with people for "fun" like a post you made once stated, i might see you with different eyes.
I dont agree with hardcore or casual labels. Is stupid , there are times to be both.I couldnt care less about how this thread ends and was not the reason i posted here in the first place.

[Mugiwara]

A timesink is an artificial way to *waste* the time of the player, and can be more or less hidden. Time -> Sink = wasted time.

If you are required to spend an extended amount of time camping an NM, waiting for it to pop, that's a timesink, because the game isn't conductive to fun, you're just staring at the screen and wasting your time while you wait for it to happen.

If you have to play all the way through a dungeon for the same amount of time, having to avoid traps, solve riddles, fight challenging and varied bosses and generally having fun, you're still *spending* time, but you're not *wasting* it. Ergo, you're not being subject to a timesink.

Some hardcore gamers are ok with timesinks because they have a ton of time in their hands, and wasting some waiting isn't that bad. Even worse, some advocate it to exclude other people from accessing the same content as they do.

Casuals have more limited time, and this means that they want to spend their limited gaming time *actively* having fun. No matter how hard or challenging that content may be. Dead times are not fun, ergo good game design excludes them.

It's really that simple.



Sitting around for 3 hours staring at a screen is still an enormous amount of *wasted* time. Even ONE hour of sitting and staring at a screen is nothing else than an hour of my life that I'll never get back. That's simply bad design.



Realism and logic would dictate not to expect elite-level content in a game that still *radically* lacks content that can be enjoyed by everyone. Really challenging content will come when the easy/average content will be in place.
Even more so, realism and logic would dictate that hard/elaborate content can't come before the combat system is final and in place. The more tactical an encounter is, the less generic, the more specific it becomes in regard of fighting mechanics. If you changed combat around AFTER difficul/complex content was added, they would have to redesign the content *again* after the new battle system is implemented.
The development team is hardly in a position to waste development time doing things twice.

So you want to turn a MMO to an "online Multi-player with instant satisfaction, your are better off playing a single player where these ridiculously timers would make sense, but it doesn't atm. Unfortunately, time sinks are needed to increase the life of any MMO, not having them at all is BAD DESIGN. This will do nothing but decrease the life of the MMO itself since its easier to acquire everything. If you wanted to have things given to you within 30 min of gameplay, a single player sounds best for you because clearly MMOs shouldn't be designed without "timesinks".

[Abriael]

Like i said , ffxi is not easy. ffxiv it is.

You still didn't mention what you think makes tanking grind mobs in FFXI "not easy". Because honestly, I could easily tank them while watching anime/TV on the computer on the side (or even while eating lol), and i was very far from being considered a sloppy tank. Quite the contrary.

On the other hand, I did mention what I think makes tanking grind mobs in FFXIV more challenging than in FFXI. I heard your opinion. I'd like to hear the reasons behind it, since I gave mine.

So you want to turn a MMO to an "online Multi-player with instant satisfaction, your are better off playing a single player where these ridiculously timers would make sense, but it doesn't atm. Unfortunately, time sinks are needed to increase the life of any MMO, not having them at all is BAD DESIGN. This will do nothing but decrease the life of the MMO itself since its easier to acquire everything. If you wanted to have things given to you within 30 min of gameplay, a single player sounds best for you because clearly MMOs shouldn't be designed without "timesinks".

You don't need timesinks to keep a game fresh. You need a constant stream of content (that's why people are required to pay a monthly fee after all). Timesinks are just the easy way out that sloppy/lazy/hard pressed designers take.

It's not nearly about "Instant gratification". It's about accessibility. The reward isn't important. Access to content is. That's what people pay for, you know.

[Zkieve]

You still didn't mention what you think makes tanking grind mobs in FFXI "not easy". Because honestly, I could easily tank them while watching anime/TV on the computer on the side (or even while eating lol), and i was very far from being considered a sloppy tank. Quite the contrary.

On the other hand, I did mention what I think makes tanking grind mobs in FFXIV more challenging than in FFXI. I heard your opinion. I'd like to hear the reasons behind it, since I gave mine.

4 vokes(2 aoe 2([+1 extra with half the hate given from mrd.] single target).2 voke like enm with no stm cost.Damage not giving hate to DD, only skills/buffs.
sentinel - deflection-aegis boom 2 rotation = almost invincible.Punishing barbs in Nms = more dmg than dds themselfs.

actually i just saw your mrd is 20, nvm dude.Good advice . Level mrd. Your life as a tank will be a piece of cake.
Until then.
/edit , after if you want to have the best tank level archer to 40 .THM is only good for soloing porpoises.

[Argh]

99% of the FFXI grind mobs are a simple tank and spank, with very little depth and nothing else to do than to spam the same routine over and over.

1400+ posts defending this incredibly poor game apparently blinded you from reality. by you saying that ffxiv's battle system is more challenging and more in depth is quite laughable.