dev1031 You are losing your main playerbase by making things too easy/fast/casual

[Zkieve]

No. While I think that FFXI is a rather easy game (as in difficulty, not as in time spent, but timesinks aren't a degree of difficulty). I just said that the tanking mechanics in FFXIV are more challenging and require an higher level of awareness than in FFXI.
That's quite a lot different than saying that FFXI is easy and FFXIV is hard.


It seems that you think that it makes me "ignorant", "suck", "in need of an IQ check" or other funny little things like that, though.



Check my post history in my profile (the one with the threads I opened) and you'll get a glimpse of what I think is wrong with FFXIV (besides the fact that there's not nearly enough content, which I repeated tons of times in this thread itself).

Like i said , ffxi is not easy. ffxiv it is.
Your opinion is yours . Mine is mine.
we both like ffxiv.
what are we arguing about again?Because if its about "opinions" i pass.

I dont got the patience to browse over your 1.5k posts.All i see you is trolling .Im sorry if i cant picture you otherwise. perhaps when you stop arguing with people for "fun" like a post you made once stated, i might see you with different eyes.
I dont agree with hardcore or casual labels. Is stupid , there are times to be both.I couldnt care less about how this thread ends and was not the reason i posted here in the first place.

[Abriael]

Like i said , ffxi is not easy. ffxiv it is.

You still didn't mention what you think makes tanking grind mobs in FFXI "not easy". Because honestly, I could easily tank them while watching anime/TV on the computer on the side (or even while eating lol), and i was very far from being considered a sloppy tank. Quite the contrary.

On the other hand, I did mention what I think makes tanking grind mobs in FFXIV more challenging than in FFXI. I heard your opinion. I'd like to hear the reasons behind it, since I gave mine.

So you want to turn a MMO to an "online Multi-player with instant satisfaction, your are better off playing a single player where these ridiculously timers would make sense, but it doesn't atm. Unfortunately, time sinks are needed to increase the life of any MMO, not having them at all is BAD DESIGN. This will do nothing but decrease the life of the MMO itself since its easier to acquire everything. If you wanted to have things given to you within 30 min of gameplay, a single player sounds best for you because clearly MMOs shouldn't be designed without "timesinks".

You don't need timesinks to keep a game fresh. You need a constant stream of content (that's why people are required to pay a monthly fee after all). Timesinks are just the easy way out that sloppy/lazy/hard pressed designers take.

It's not nearly about "Instant gratification". It's about accessibility. The reward isn't important. Access to content is. That's what people pay for, you know.

[Zkieve]

You still didn't mention what you think makes tanking grind mobs in FFXI "not easy". Because honestly, I could easily tank them while watching anime/TV on the computer on the side (or even while eating lol), and i was very far from being considered a sloppy tank. Quite the contrary.

On the other hand, I did mention what I think makes tanking grind mobs in FFXIV more challenging than in FFXI. I heard your opinion. I'd like to hear the reasons behind it, since I gave mine.

4 vokes(2 aoe 2([+1 extra with half the hate given from mrd.] single target).2 voke like enm with no stm cost.Damage not giving hate to DD, only skills/buffs.
sentinel - deflection-aegis boom 2 rotation = almost invincible.Punishing barbs in Nms = more dmg than dds themselfs.

actually i just saw your mrd is 20, nvm dude.Good advice . Level mrd. Your life as a tank will be a piece of cake.
Until then.
/edit , after if you want to have the best tank level archer to 40 .THM is only good for soloing porpoises.

[Abriael]

4 vokes(2 aoe 2([+1 extra with half the hate given from mrd.] single target).2 voke like enm with no stm cost.Damage not giving hate to DD, only skills/buffs.

The "damage not giving hate to DD" is an urban legend. Try tanking without taunts, and them attacking without skills. They WILL pull aggro.

More provokes don't make for stronger hate control when you have to actually keep the stamina for them and when aggro is naturally less sticky.

There are more provokes in FFXIV simply because you *need* them. Try tanking with just one provoke every 30 seconds, and lemme know how it goes?

Also, warmonger's cooldown is very high (two minutes).

Having a wide variety of skills doesn't mean you can use them all, that's where stamina management comes into the picture.

sentinel - deflection-aegis boom 2 rotation = almost invincible.

Exactly like utsusemi in FFXI (actually, much less then utsusemi).

Punishing barbs in Nms = more dmg than dds themselfs.

Weren't we talking about grind mobs? Besides, it has a very long cooldown and a very short duration (12 seconds duration vs 5 minutes cooldown when used as a GLD), leaving you without spikes afterwards. Hardly a "i win" button.

actually i just saw your mrd is 20, nvm dude.Good advice . Level mrd. Your life as a tank will be a piece of cake.
Until then.

Actually I'd say that a high thaumaturge is quite a lot more useful than a high marauder. Most of the marauder tanking skills are redundant with the GLD ones, and don't increase effectiveness that much.

1400+ posts defending this incredibly poor game apparently blinded you from reality. by you saying that ffxiv's battle system is more challenging and more in depth is quite laughable.

Unfortunately for you, and luckily for us all, "what you say is quite laughable" doesn't make for a solid argument.
Also, "defending" the game? Sorry to disappoint, but my 1400 posts cover a wide wariety of arguments, most of them have nothing to do with "defending" the game. As usual another strawman argument.

[Zkieve]

The "damage not giving hate to DD" is an urban legend. Try tanking without taunts, and them attacking without skills. They WILL pull aggro.

More provokes don't make for stronger hate control when you have to actually keep the stamina for them and when aggro is naturally less sticky.

Also, warmonger's cooldown is very high (two minutes).

Having a wide variety of skills doesn't mean you can use them all, that's where stamina management comes into the picture.



Exactly like utsusemi in FFXI?



Weren't we talking about grind mobs? Besides, it has a very long cooldown and a very short duration (12 seconds duration vs 5 minutes cooldown when used as a GLD), leaving you without spikes afterwards. Hardly a "i win" button.



Actually I'd say that a high thaumaturge is quite a lot more useful than a high marauder. Most of the marauder tanking skills are redundant with the GLD ones, and don't increase effectiveness that much.

If thats what you think.have fun then .
I dont have problems keeping hate , ever .Perhaps you need to rethink your idea of how to conserve stamina if you think tanking is indeed hard.

and about the mrd skills not being the best you could have for glad? um, ok?.
Damage giving hate ? are we playing the same game ? really ?

Do you really find grinding dificult ?
Do you have problems keeping hate on single target only with voke and your own def/offensive skills ?

The more i talk to you the more i think you dont understand how to tank on ffxiv.

anyways im going to bed, had long night out,i really have nothin vs you but seriously , stop.tanking is a cake in ffxiv compared to any game i have played up to this day, and i always main a tank.if you dont have all the tools you should have of course is gonna be hard. Just becouse you "assume" you dont need them it does not mean you cant get away with it, but having them will make tankin 50-70% easier.But if you want to gymp yourself by not having them , be my guest.

Level mrd get warmonger and barbaric vamp (or whatever is called) thats 2 more vokes right there for you+ anythin else you get from mrd , (btw for anythin but nms skull sunder2 is awesome).If you really find dificult to keep hate on single target(since we are talking bout grindin), then idk what else to say.

[Abriael]

If thats what you think.have fun then .
I dont have problems keeping hate , ever .Perhaps you need to rethink your idea of how to conserve stamina if you think tanking is indeed hard.

and about the mrd skills not being the best you could have for glad? um, ok?.
Damage giving hate ? are we playing the same game ? really ?

Do you really find grinding dificult ?
Do you have problems keeping hate on single target only with voke and your own def/offensive skills ?

The more i talk to you the more i think you dont understand how to tank on ffxiv.

anyways im going to bed, had long night out,i really have nothin vs you but seriously , stop.tanking is a cake in ffxiv compared to any game i have played up to this day, and i always main a tank.if you dont have all the tools you should have of course is gonna be hard. Just becouse you "assume" you dont need them it does not mean you cant get away with it, but having them will make tankin 50-70% easier.But if you want to gymp yourself by not having them , be my guess.

Level mrd get warmonger and barbaric vamp (or whatever is called) thats 2 more vokes right there for you+ anythin else you get from mrd , (btw for anythin but nms skull sunder2 is awesome).If you really find dificult to keep hate on single target(since we are talking bout grindin), then idk what else to say.

Again, you seem to miss (repeatedly) the simple fact that "finding something more challenging than something else" doesn't equate to "finding something difficult". The first is a comparation, the second is an absolute.

I found FFXI EASY. I find FFXIV Hard-ER than FFXI. I can keep hate fine, because I know what I'm doing definitely well, but if you go to the gladiator-dedicated forums both here and in other forums you'll find a TON of less experienced people having lots of trouble keeping it. That simply didn't happen with FFXI, where enemity was very sticky, and there was a ton of enemity plus and enemity minus gear. I see a lot of other gladiators around that can't hold a monster for the life of them, simply because keeping hate in FFXI was a rotation of very few skills. In FFXIV you have to use many more, with different cooldowns and with stamina playing a role. Many find that overwhelming.

by you constantly dissociating time sinks with a challenge also declares your mis-guidance. did it ever occur to you that a time sink for example, traveling on foot through tough zones avoiding death due to xp loss, IS a challange? the challenge is the avoidance part of mobs that can kill you or your party adventuring. the looking for a party or group time sink's challenge is making or finding companions for your adventure. after all, this is an mmo.

Changing subject already? How funny. So your idea of "challenge" is walking around for hours in an environment that you've already seen hundreds of time avoiding some monsters led by a predictable artificial stupidity? Oh the challenge lol.

There's no challenge in wasting people's time needlessly. The challenge is in giving people actually challenging content to face. You know, content that will make you FAIL if you aren't good enough.

Avoiding aggro monsters while walking around is brain-dead easy.
Time sinks involve no challege. All they do is described by the word itself. Time thrown in the sink. Wasted Time.

[Argh]

Changing subject already? How funny. So your idea of "challenge" is walking around for hours in an environment that you've already seen hundreds of time avoiding some monsters led by a predictable artificial stupidity? Oh the challenge lol.

There's no challenge in wasting people's time needlessly. The challenge is in giving people actually challenging content to face. You know, content that will make you FAIL if you aren't good enough.

Avoiding aggro monsters while walking around is brain-dead easy.
Time sinks involve no challege. All they do is described by the word itself. Time thrown in the sink. Wasted Time.

what subject change? i simply quoted you. i guess i should ask, shaking in your boots now? can't stand a challenging argument? i guess by your logic arguing over the internet is a time sink and we should not have to do it, lol. you want your instant gratification now, i bet. you just want to win the argument without a challenge.......

[Argh]

I found FFXI EASY. I find FFXIV Hard-ER than FFXI. .

dude, i cannot take you seriously if you really believe what you are writing.

[Argh]

You don't need timesinks to keep a game fresh. You need a constant stream of content (that's why people are required to pay a monthly fee after all). Timesinks are just the easy way out that sloppy/lazy/hard pressed designers take.

It's not nearly about "Instant gratification". It's about accessibility. The reward isn't important. Access to content is. That's what people pay for, you know.

by you constantly dissociating time sinks with a challenge also declares your mis-guidance. did it ever occur to you that a time sink for example, traveling on foot through tough zones avoiding death due to xp loss, IS a challange? the challenge is the avoidance part of mobs that can kill you or your party adventuring. the looking for a party or group time sink's challenge is making or finding companions for your adventure. after all, this is an mmo.

but of course what you do is take out the challenge part of the time sink and simply label it a time sink. you justify it as; why travel when you should teleport, or why "waste time" LFG when you should be able to solo. you base your entire flawed assumptions on accessability of content when you, at the same time, are ignorant to the fact that sanbox elements (like traveling and risk vs. reward system) naturally allows the player to create their own content. player-created sanbox content like; "let's camp and pull at this spot because it has an access point to zone out or a path of escape due to the elevation of terrain in case the fight turns sour".