Counter to Elitism

[SkyeWindbinder]

For Yoshi-P confirming that people wont leave raids w/o a reward you can tell the fights and/or getting to the fight will be brutal...examples are Raven Nevermore and Garuda (hard)

If Yoshi can make it so it's really that hard, then I suppose it would balance out everyone going home with a reward. On the other hand, it might shorten the replayability of the game if there's no content present that people would want to repeat. Double edged sword.

[Reynhart]

Well come on, Reyhart. Let's be honest here. The system we have works, and it keeps players coming back for more. Therefore, it succeeds. If you have a better system, you should present it. Note, I said "better" system. This is just my humble $0.02, but your paint by numbers gambit "things you shoulda done" system idea, well, it kind of... sucked. No offense meant, of course.

Honestly, I don't understand how this system still works. What motivation can people find to do the same thing a 200th time, when they were screwed 199 times by a simple dice roll ?

How do people thought, back in the days of FFXI, that getting the Empress Hairpin was "challenging" when you could OS the NM that could drop it ?

And more importantly, why do they consider people who claim "challenge over random" to be "gimme gimme players" ?

My ideas certainly have flaws, but at least you could feel proud when the game rewards you.

[Chardrizard]

Because we already have such system in place in Garuda (which gives 2 token upon winning) or Darnus hard (which gives earring upon winning), which you obviously never beat despite asking for challenges, then you make things complicated by suggesting gambit system when tokens can do just fine.

[Reynhart]

If you could get something every run for sure, well your party anyhow, it would take very little time til you stopped doing it.

So how come everyone doesn't have the White Ravens ? Because they got their ass kicked hard by Nael.

By progressins through challenge, you could also build steadily your way to the best items.
AF aren't hard, so you start with this.
Grand companies items aren't hard too, but a bit longer, so with your AF, you'll gather enough company seals
Beastmen strongholds are a bit harder, so with GC Set, you'll hunt for these items.
Ifrit is yet harder than the strongholds, so with your drops, you'll fight it, then Garuda, then the dungeons, etc...

You won't hunt directly for the best items, because it'll be too difficult.

[ispano]

So how come everyone doesn't have the White Ravens ? Because they got their ass kicked hard by Nael.

By progressins through challenge, you could also build steadily your way to the best items.
AF aren't hard, so you start with this.
Grand companies items aren't hard too, but a bit longer, so with your AF, you'll gather enough company seals
Beastmen strongholds are a bit harder, so with GC Set, you'll hunt for these items.
Ifrit is yet harder than the strongholds, so with your drops, you'll fight it, then Garuda, then the dungeons, etc...

You won't hunt directly for the best items, because it'll be too difficult.

Because you also have to realize that a large part of the community gets upset when they can't do something without putting in a lot of effort. I understand the working your way up and bettering yourself mentality. But much of the community they're trying to appeal to doesn't seem to like playing that way.

[Reynhart]

Because we already have such system in place in Garuda (which gives 2 token upon winning) or Darnus hard (which gives earring upon winning), which you obviously never beat despite asking for challenges, then you make things complicated by suggesting gambit system when tokens can do just fine.

I admit that Nael Deus Darnus was a step in the right direction, but it was lost in the myriad of RNG supremacy for every other fight.
The token system is as little as considerate as the drop rate system, just capped in time. Your skill have no impact on your reward (As long as you can win the fight, of course)

I'm not complaining for not having the White Ravens since I never managed to beat Darnus, but killing Ifrit a dozen times to gain only one totem is far more frustrating.

[Warlock]

So how come everyone doesn't have the White Ravens ? Because they got their ass kicked hard by Nael.

By progressins through challenge, you could also build steadily your way to the best items.
AF aren't hard, so you start with this.
Grand companies items aren't hard too, but a bit longer, so with your AF, you'll gather enough company seals
Beastmen strongholds are a bit harder, so with GC Set, you'll hunt for these items.
Ifrit is yet harder than the strongholds, so with your drops, you'll fight it, then Garuda, then the dungeons, etc...

You won't hunt directly for the best items, because it'll be too difficult.

Amen..well said people try to skip this thus they fail...they want to run before been able to walk ..i saw parties pop dead at Garuda wearing full AF

[Reynhart]

Because you also have to realize that a large part of the community gets upset when they can't do something without putting in a lot of effort.

I really like your sentence. If one don't want to "put a lot of effort" in one's reward, then this game is not for him/her, be it "very difficult fights with guaranteed reward" or "ridiculous drop rate so that you have to repeat dungeons and fights over and over"

These people think that they'll hit the 1% drop on their first run, and will get bored pretty quick when confronted to the real thing.

It's almost as if they say "I don't want to work so I can steadily build my income...I'd rather play the lottery over and over, I'm confident I will win"

[Reynhart]

Amen..well said people try to skip this thus they fail...they want to run before been able to walk ..i saw parties pop dead at Garuda wearing full AF

Who can blame them for wanting a change of pace after missing "earlier" drops so many times ?

[ispano]

I really like your sentence. If one don't want to "put a lot of effort" in one's reward, then this game is not for him/her, be it "very difficult fights with guaranteed reward" or "ridiculous drop rate so that you have to repeat dungeons and fights over and over"

These people think that they'll hit the 1% drop on their first run, and will get bored pretty quick when confronted to the real thing.

But you see, SE is trying to appeal to a much larger player base, which includes those people. You'll almost never convince people to change the way they play or that the game is not for them. If they "like" other parts of the game, they want it to appeal to them and many want it changed to do so. Most people i've seen don't quite "get" the fact that some games may not be for them, they'd rather have them changed.