Counter to Elitism

[ispano]

I get the impression most of us want some challenge to it. So where is all of this casualization and rebelling against difficulty coming from? Are people that upset when they can't have the best of the best? Or is that what's actually selling....?

If it is, I think consumers are shortchanging themselves for a false sense of satisfaction. As far as the thread topic goes, it's kind of like a dissolution of the noble class. If everything is piss easy and everyone is equal, no elites can exist. Though, I laugh at all of OP's suggestion and can't imagine people actually want that.

Thing is, we're a minority. The larger MMO playerbase actually prefers the "laid back, take it easy" playing method. Forum goers are also a minority.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Thing is, we're a minority. The larger MMO playerbase actually prefers the "laid back, take it easy" playing method.

I don't know about that. If those who wanted a challenge were actually the minority, then the current system that MMOs use wouldn't be a popular and widely used as they are now. I think the majority of MMO players are actually those who prefer the road to becoming elite being put into the games as they are. After all, it's a path that anyone can follow if they have the time and gumption to do so. I think that elites and the status thereof are actually important to the game. It gives other players something to aspire to.

[Reynhart]

After all, it's a path that anyone can follow if they have the time and gumption to do so.

Isn't that sad for a game to require "time" over "skill" ?

[SkyeWindbinder]

Isn't that sad for a game to require "time" over "skill" ?

Actually, if an MMO does it right, it should require adequate amounts of both. You should be good enough in elite content to know what you're doing, and it should also not just be a one-shot run for elite rewards.

[Chardrizard]

The only people that whines about class stackings are mostly the one that are terrible at the class they played so people never let them go, face the fact, you are terrible and SE is not going fix it.

Most endgame LS has zero issue trying out different setup and wins, accomplishing things and having fun at the same time, yes the issue isn't with the elitist, it's with this terrible players that are hiding behind casual cover.

It's a common known fact, most melee DPSer especially have zero freaking knowledge about enemy moves, timing their WS and get the way out of shit like Scorpion Sting, where to run when Chimera does certain breathe, etc etc.

[debola]

I agree with Chad. FFxiv doesn't REQUIRE certain setups to win. The reason why people are strict about setups doesn't have much to do with the game as it does common human nature. When people find a setup that works they stick to it, or the setup that is easiest to pull off. This is best for PUG groups when the coordination and communication is lacking and so thats what most pple end up doing. An LS on Gugnir server has a video up where they cleared Aurum Vale using. 1PLD, 1WAR, 1 BLM, 1 DRG, 1 BRD, 2 WHM, 1 MNK, under 25 mins. Such a thing would be hard to pull of with a PUG.

edit: figured i'd add the link for proof. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVlLSzCff_o

[KoujiGeki]

Isn't that sad for a game to require "time" over "skill" ?

no it should be equal if not more time. My favorite thing about MMOs are they can take YEARS to actually beat everything. I love games with good stories that are really long cause if you could beat all the content fast how fun could that be. unless your the person who also complains about how primal drops should be 100%. Like 11, well not so much now but when level caps and all that crap existed. If it didnt the game would be beaten in a week then all the players who beat everything leave and the new player who cant learn how to do stuff get screwed. game dies.

Perfect example CoP in 11, the pinnacle of perfection, Hard content that you couldnt just breeze through you know like walking through The shrouded maw but instead of not crammed full of trees that would one shot you just a bunch of tough mobs that you had to remain alert about in the Promiviyons. Tough bosses fights that yes required some items but very decent strategies to fight most of them that you could do with any jobs. But yes there was elitism there with people only wanting to do it the cookie cutting way.

[Reynhart]

Actually, if an MMO does it right, it should require adequate amounts of both. You should be good enough in elite content to know what you're doing, and it should also not just be a one-shot run for elite rewards.

One shot can be justified if the run is really difficult. The Raven Nevermore always gave you the Earring, but you'd still deserved it.

For the dungeons or primals, you probably need severals items, so you'll be doing them more than once. But even if you don't have an item each time, you should have something that made you progress towards your goal.

Like 100% totem drop for Ifrit, or a token from CC/AV. Something a little better than "Thank you Player, but your drop is in another dungeon"

[SkyeWindbinder]

One shot can be justified if the run is really difficult. The Raven Nevermore always gave you the Earring, but you'd still deserved it.

For the dungeons or primals, you probably need severals items, so you'll be doing them more than once. But even if you don't have an item each time, you should have something that made you progress towards your goal.

Like 100% totem drop for Ifrit, or a token from CC/AV. Something a little better than "Thank you Player, but your drop is in another dungeon"

The drops in dungeons like that are luck items. Even if you run the dungeon, you're not guaranteed to get what you want. And really, why should you be? True, you did difficult content. Good for you. But does that mean you should automatically get that fancy glowing super-dee-duper uber staff that you want? Not necessarily. In a dungeon run, some people might get what they desire. Some people won't. That's the way it goes. Why should that change just because a few people want a faster, more guaranteed path to getting what they want? Everyone has the same chance at getting the item, but at the same time, the luck factor is still there, and should stay there. It's what makes getting the drop even more satisfying, knowing that of all the things that could have dropped, the thing you wanted dropped, and you actually got it in a roll against your team mates.

It's kind of like treasure hunting. Yeah, it's hard work, going through a tomb or dungeon, avoiding traps and fighting wildlife and all that, but the thought of getting to the end and finding a pile of gold and jewels from ancient times makes the work worth it. Then you reach a chamber, there might be valuable things there, there might not be. If there is, lucky you! If not, then keep searching the tomb till you (hopefully) find what you want. You don't just quit and say "I went through all that work to get to this point, and the ancient rulers of this crypt didn't even bother to leave some gold around in this room! Screw this, it's not worth it! I'm going to go raid a pawn shop, where I'm guaranteed to get some gold for my troubles!" The luck factor makes getting the reward all the more special.

[KoujiGeki]

The drops in dungeons like that are luck items. Even if you run the dungeon, you're not guaranteed to get what you want. And really, why should you be? True, you did difficult content. Good for you. But does that mean you should automatically get that fancy glowing super-dee-duper uber staff that you want? Not necessarily. In a dungeon run, some people might get what they desire. Some people won't. That's the way it goes. Why should that change just because a few people want a faster, more guaranteed path to getting what they want? Everyone has the same chance at getting the item, but at the same time, the luck factor is still there, and should stay there. It's what makes getting the drop even more satisfying, knowing that of all the things that could have dropped, the thing you wanted dropped, and you actually got it in a roll against your team mates.

It's kind of like treasure hunting. Yeah, it's hard work, going through a tomb or dungeon, avoiding traps and fighting wildlife and all that, but the thought of getting to the end and finding a pile of gold and jewels from ancient times makes the work worth it. Then you reach a chamber, there might be valuable things there, there might not be. If there is, lucky you! If not, then keep searching the tomb till you (hopefully) find what you want. You don't just quit and say "I went through all that work to get to this point, and the ancient rulers of this crypt didn't even bother to leave some gold around in this room! Screw this, it's not worth it! I'm going to go raid a pawn shop, where I'm guaranteed to get some gold for my troubles!" The luck factor makes getting the reward all the more special.

exactly like the Rajas ring, bullshit hard to get, but so worth it even at 99 its still the best ring, and you can use it at 30 it was so worth the mind blowing hardness of CoP.