Alpha Video 4- Quests and Battle

[Genjuro]

Each game should be self contained meaning that you shouldn't require the use of third party influence in order to finish the quest. Now granted, there's no problem in having guides and what not as Brady Game Guides wouldn't exists if were the case.

I'm on the fence really because I did like trying to figure out where to go to next. I think that help should be available in game but not so much so that you never need to read the quest and just follow arrows. Hopefully they can come to a good balance of it so as not to deter the casual gamer away but to also keep the hardcore intrigued.

[KiriA500]

Stop being ridiculous.

First, people did quests in XI plenty - they only avoided the ones that felt like too much effort for not enough reward (which is entirely subjective). Of course, considering how "reward-driven" so many MMO gamers are these days, it becomes a lot of them. We're talking about people who consider any amount of time/effort that stands between them and their "shinies" to be a horrible crime against humanity. That's an issue with the impatient and entitled gamer's mindset typical of "modern gaming", not with the game itself.

Second, FFXI actually played like an RPG, where you're encouraged/required to actually - you know - explore, investigate, talk to different NPCs, see what they have to say, see if they want/need/request anything of you. You actually do have to pay attention to what they're saying and follow-through on it. They actually required you to use your brain - which of course, in today's MMO market is tantamount to asking many to poke their own eye out with a hot stick. FFXI treats you like an actual Adventurer, not a helpless and hopeless idiot who needs to be shown the how/where/what of everything in order to complete it.

Quests in XI felt 100x more like actual quests than almost anything out of the "gaming on training wheels" nonsense to come out since WoW started dumbing down the genre and babying the players. I'm talking everything outside of FoV and GoV which were added much later and are not the core storyline, etc.

The biggest problem with XI was in how poorly worded or translated many of the quests were. That was a problem with the localization, not with the quests themselves. In those cases, yes, you would have to ask another player who may have completed it, or go online to figure it out. There were plenty of quests I did in XI, however, where I never needed to do anything but actually read what the NPC was saying to get through it. Then, SE did the right thing by leaving it up to me to figure it out and complete the task - which is what a quest should be. Killing 10 boars that all but have freaking neon-signs on them saying "Hey stupid, I'm right here. Kill me", so you can find them if you're not even looking, is not questing. It's mundane, repetitive, patronizing and frankly, insulting, BS.

Being given tasks where you are not even required to read a single word of what the NPC says because every. single. step. is clearly pointed out for you is not questing. It's derivative, boring, empty and shallow nonsense. It's lazy, uninspired design and it's something for which Yoshi-P deserves derision, not praise.

If this is the kind of brainless, repetitive, uninspired and boring crap some of you people consider "engaging and fun content", well then be happy... Looks like you're gonna be drowning in it.

I'm not sure what's worse, the way MMO developers these days treat gamers as though they're morons who can't tie their own shoe-laces without an illustrated step-by-step guide, or the fact that so many gamers actually like being treated that way.

No, you stop being ridiculous.

Questing in Final Fantasy XI was simply for fame. You earned 0 experience from them (aside from the few that gave you an EXP scroll, which was entirely random), so they were only there for fame. Once you had the proper fame, nobody quested.

Questing in World of Warcraft/Final Fantasy XIV is done to get EXP and money.

I don't see how any of the quests from Final Fantasy XI are any more engaging than the ones from World of Warcraft. Wow, you turned in 1,000 Yagudo necklaces, congratulations on your Norg fame. I'm sure your level 75 had no problem farming those off the level 10 Yagudo in Giddeus. Meanwhile, simply by following a quest chain in World of Warcraft, I gained 15 levels, and made 10 gold, got some pretty nice gear for my level, on top of building reputation with the faction of the area.

Then, SE did the right thing by leaving it up to me to figure it out and complete the task - which is what a quest should be. Killing 10 boars that all but have freaking neon-signs on them saying "Hey stupid, I'm right here. Kill me", so you can find them if you're not even looking, is not questing. It's mundane, repetitive, patronizing and frankly, insulting, BS.

Actually, not telling the player is all of those things. You are flat out lying if you say you didn't go to a single third-party website (allakhazam, killingifrit, etc.) for help on any of the quests in Final Fantasy XI. Simply because you want to trick yourself into thinking Square-Enix actually thought their players had enough "intelligence" to figure out their puzzles doesn't make it true. How would you know exactly how much fame is required to do the quest to get Utsusemi? Oh, someone figured that out...but at least we don't have an indicator in game to show what we've done!

I'm not sure what's worse, the way MMO developers these days treat gamers as though they're morons who can't tie their own shoe-laces without an illustrated step-by-step guide, or the fact that so many gamers actually like being treated that way.

No, the worst part is having to deal with PLAYERS who treat everyone like they're morons. Stop with this "OMG ONLY AN IDIOT NEEDS TO HAVE A BIG ARROW POINTING TO WHERE TO GO HURRP DURRP" crap. Nothing about Final Fantasy XI grinding/questing took any sort of intelligence. You stood around and hit stuff, and you looked up online how to turn the items in.

[Alkimi]

Wall of Text

Ok, go start a XI character and go do all the city quests. Without looking at an online walkthrough. See how much fun you have. They're trying to attract new players in 2.0, not drive them away after 2 hours of gameplay because they can't progress without looking on the internet.

They've shown 2 quests and you're dismissing the whole game because of it? They're just supposed to be filler for a bit of exp, nothing more. I'm sure the storyline and class/job quests will be a lot less simple than these.

[Kallera]

No, the worst part is having to deal with PLAYERS who treat everyone like they're morons. Stop with this "OMG ONLY AN IDIOT NEEDS TO HAVE A BIG ARROW POINTING TO WHERE TO GO HURRP DURRP" crap. Nothing about Final Fantasy XI grinding/questing took any sort of intelligence. You stood around and hit stuff, and you looked up online how to turn the items in.

Agree, without the glory of wiki sites and gamefaqs, a lot of players would be slogging through the games like in the old NES days with only the functions in game for assistance, you know, like how it was intended.

or they'd call the official hotline and shell more money to SE. but that neither here nor there.

The point is turning to the wiki guides is a luxury, lazywork, not a note of your skill and foresight. quests without enough information to point to the right "???" in a large area should only be done for certain quests, not for all of them.

[indira]

they should of showed other kinds of quest everyone knows theres gonna be kill quest.

[Tonkra]

If this is the kind of brainless, repetitive, uninspired and boring crap some of you people consider "engaging and fun content", well then be happy... Looks like you're gonna be drowning in it.

well boring, repetive, uninspired was "standing in one place and grind your ass off"... in my opinion. Like you did in FFXI.
lots of time sink because you had to regenerate hours for your MP and HP.

That has nothing to do with GAMING experience like in an offline final fantasy. like Final Fantasy 12 etc.


AND Questing wont be the only thing to do.. Public Events, Low Level dungeon with bosses in it.. guildleves... and thats how i call it fun..


When you want to grind your ass off, do so. nobody will ever stop you. and that you have to look up the internet for some of the quest steps in FFXI is just BAD Gamedesign. that you dont even had to do in an offline FF.


if you have a map with you, why cant the quest giver mark it on the map, where he told you to go? is a map that unrealistic? not to me. and i think its better to read through bubbles than through a quest text box... nobody would read the quest box..

[vax]

Indeed i hate the thing about the quest "Look at the map and follow the road, it sound for babies".

Also, a thing i didn't like on the new gameplay is the spell animation, i know it's alpha and may change but i see it even worst on 1.0 first spell animations.

[Starlord]

Hmm I Like how this is developing, it all depends on how the quest progression is made all in all, you start killing 6 boars and end up nuking bahamut, sounds good to me.

Also the graphical improvements are FREAKING AWESOME, can't wait to spend 8+hrs a day playing this game! Oh and love the FFXII feeling they are bringing into, it really fits!

Edit: Oh and we got confirmation that certain skills have their own CD's, so at high level the combat mechanics will be complex! yay!

Yep, I love the part where slugs came out of the tree, I wasn't expecting that. I thought it was going to be Fix up the trees then return to me.

It was a long trip + killing mobs. I say this almost ranks as a mission :P.

I'm very happy with how they are handling the quests/missions.

Indeed i hate the thing about the quest "Look at the map and follow the road, it sound for babies".

Having a Marker telling this is the spot you have to kill stuff for a quest, is not for babies. I rather not go back to the FFXI days where you barely have any clues on what to do on quests and eventually I give up on some of them.

Keep the markers, keeps people like me from going insane because I don't know where the quests will take me next.

Also, a thing i didn't like on the new gameplay is the spell animation, i know it's alpha and may change but i see it even worst on 1.0 first spell animations.

Ummm... look at that animation again... *sees person twists and turns his hands as he's about to cast his spell* :P

[KiriA500]

Also, a thing i didn't like on the new gameplay is the spell animation, i know it's alpha and may change but i see it even worst on 1.0 first spell animations.

[Tonkra]

Also, a thing i didn't like on the new gameplay is the spell animation, i know it's alpha and may change but i see it even worst on 1.0 first spell animations.

sorry... but i LOVE that animation.. its not that static feel around it like in 1.0.

"standing there and tip your forehead"

the casting animation is great to me. less static.. more lively. you just need to get used to it because its new. and i think when you play it for yourself, its even more great.


its like the complains about the graphics being to bad.. i think those bad voices will fade away quickly after release..