CG Midlander

[Warlock]

Yeah I definitely think it's safe to say the events happened at the time of Battle of Silvertear Skies. The DANGER that Warburton comes to warn Ul'dah about is about the Primals. I still can't say if Warburton or Corguevais are Imperials or what happens to Corguevais after he flees. But I do think probably 75% chance that the Lala Twins "took care" of him. But what happened to the Horn? Is there more than 1 Horn or is it just the 1?

Thanks for the videos Warlock. They're pretty much a perfect match.



A few tidbits a friend of mine translated for me:
The Echo = 過去を見る力 = The Power of Seeing the Past
Minfilia = Minfiria
Ascilia = Ashiria
Corguevais = Kouguvei
Was trying to find a correlation with the name change and stuff but least it's still similar lol

This one perhaps deserves more attention.

The goldsmith's quest, F'lhaminn's Flower, has the following gossip from the greatloam growery:

So the Botanists suspect an assassination order on Nielle. It is of course speculation on their part, but possibly an informed one?

The cutscenes don't put a date on Nielle's passing, but at the very least measure it in years. Chrysaliswiki has thankfully kept a record of the rest of the non-cutscene text with this juicy bit:


EDIT: WE HAVE A DATE FOR UL'DAH'S ECHOS!
From She Walks in Beauty:

If we combine this with the assumption that strife concerned involved the assassination of Nielle, the breaking of Heartstrike (in which the Ossuary had invested) and the dismissal of Nielle's father as guildmaster, we could assume that the echoed scenes indeed align with the lead-up to the Battle of Silvertear Skies.

If most of your missions leading up to "White Sands" are set 10 years in the past that would match with Minfilia and Krimm been in their early 20s maybe Minfilia is not the most special Echo user but she had the initiative to start the organization ...maybe the journey she claims some of the members have done that have reached the end and when they came back didn't want to say anything because the answer was too much of horror ..shes not talking about actual physical journey and more like these guys have been Echoing into the past so much from person to person going deeper and deeper they reached the Allagan times...what you guys think about this?

about the horns they are a perfect match but what was a mammet doing with a relic (just like how Y'shtola calls it) so dangerous? did Travanchet sell it to Niellefersne?

[NoloeTazier]

Well I'm sure if they were able to Echo thousands and thousands of years they would see things before the Allagan Empire. But I say the Echo only works on people and objects with things they've actually experienced. They'd have to physically enter the Crystal Tower to Echo anything that has to do with the Allagan Empire. I think it's more so they found the Truth of the Echo, many people being religious (like our Path Companion), and it made them have psychological breakdowns that everything they've been taught or believed is wrong.

Minfilia: Of those few who have...not one is willing to speak of what he saw at the end of the Path. It is as if they all bore witness to a truth too terrible...or too shameful to be told.

Primals awakening, Empire truth and lies, The Twelve and possibly the Life of Eorzea. It could all be too much to handle in a vision and they just shutdown.

I think we can assume that both events happened around the same time, which would mean it's 2 separate Horns. 2 Horns that came from the same beast which is why there aren't 3? Travanchet doesn't believe we should have the power of the Horn so no way he sold it. We know Travanchet took the Horn and is either an Ascian or affiliated with them, the Ul'dah Horn that Corguevais took is MIA, I believe the Lala Twins caught up with him but I couldn't tell you what happened to the Horn.

[Warlock]

Well I'm sure if they were able to Echo thousands and thousands of years they would see things before the Allagan Empire. But I say the Echo only works on people and objects with things they've actually experienced. They'd have to physically enter the Crystal Tower to Echo anything that has to do with the Allagan Empire. I think it's more so they found the Truth of the Echo, many people being religious (like our Path Companion), and it made them have psychological breakdowns that everything they've been taught or believed is wrong. Primals awakening, Empire truth and lies, The Twelve and possibly the Life of Eorzea. It could all be too much to handle in a vision and they just shutdown.

I think we can assume that both events happened around the same time, which would mean it's 2 separate Horns. 2 Horns that came from the same beast which is why there aren't 3? Travanchet doesn't believe we should have the power of the Horn so no way he sold it. We know Travanchet took the Horn and is either an Ascian or affiliated with them, the Ul'dah Horn that Corguevais took is MIA, I believe the Lala Twins caught up with him but I couldn't tell you what happened to the Horn.

We can Echo jump multiple people at the same time tho ..that is what i was trying to say.. because in Limsa Lominsa you Echo into the Adventure Guild dude's memories and while doing so you Echo into Y'shtola's to see Shtalmann you don't have to do the whole trip in one go same thing happened in Gridania you Echo someone to see Krimm at the cleansing and then Echo into Dustant to see him set the three on fire..

[Mieck]

Looks like I'm a little late to the who then = who now party. I rewatched the Gridanian missions up to the point it joins the others on Thursday, but didn't get a chance to post anything. I was leaning to Hermit/Khrimm theory as well. But there are other questions that arise because of it.

There are instances of "tells" to indicate that we are witnessing the past. One obvious one is the guildmaster in the Woodworking Guild in Gridania. Her coat is always red, but there are two versions of it. This can be seen in the cutscenes for Souls Gone Wild. Also, I think I'm right in saying there is a point where one of the present-day children walks in through the door of the same guild and morphs into Fye.

Now, I know there's a practical consideration on this as to why (assuming these Acilia/Minfilia, Khrimm/Hermit theories only seem to advance a child character model into a present-day adult character model, and I'm not familiar enough with the Limsa storyline to see if Blackburn has a child counterpart. I must say that the Gridania storyline is much more upfront about the Hermit/Khrimm connection.
In the final set of cutscenes for the cleansing of your woodsin, the Hermit is there when you arrive in amphitheatre, and then when it switches to Dunstan/Fye/Khrimm, the Hermit is gone. Also of note is the escort to Lifemend Stump. The Hermit is chastising the children for being so silly to place something there that can't be fixed, and then in the Echo, you see Fye and Khrimm placing something there that can't be fixed - the mask.

Hermit and Minfilia accounts for two of the three city storyline links to the Path of the Twelve storyline. Where is the link for Limsa? If there was a adult Lala (hard to tell, I know ) fishing at that spot in the cutscenes before the confrontation in the Echo between Y'shtola and Sthalmann, I'd say that was case closed, but there isn't.
Anyone got any leads on the Limsa link? I can't think they'd leave one out if we've found two already - and that is assuming they aren't just massive coincidences. Where Square Enix storytelling is concerned, there is no such thing as a coincidence.

Now, while I like all these connections, I do think it raises another point, and I don't have an answer to this. I hope someone else can come up with something.
10 years have passed, and in that time, Y'shtola, Papalymo, Yda, and Thancred have been in the three city states all that time?
In Futures Perfect (which is in the present day, because it features our path companion and Minfilia), the scene with the fight by Silvertear Lake features all four Archons and the path companion is a bit uncertain; is an Echo we are both in? Or is it real time?

One event that does tie the Archons to a ten year stay in Eorzea (and I know it's recent, so can't really be completely reliable for continuity to the old storyline) is Dalamud/Bahamut.

Edit: So what have they been doing for ten years? If the battle shown in Futures Perfect is in the present day, why did the Archons intervene? What was their angle? Does the previous Ala Mihgan Resistance failures mentioned by Minfilia in Futures Perfect have anything to do with occupying these years (again, assuming that the Archons were involved and that is why they turn up at the end ...if that is the present... ugh, makes my head hurt)

[Soukyuu]

I'm not that familiar with LL storyline, but isn't Sisipu the fisher lala the corresponding version of child/adult for Limsa?

[Warlock]

I'm not that familiar with LL storyline, but isn't Sisipu the fisher lala the corresponding version of child/adult for Limsa?

No in LL our past/present reference is Sthalmann ...his name changes in the past we see him young been a Commodore in the barracudas present he has changed his name he has an eyepatch he is a nobody and hates till no end the same Barracudas he once served and leaded

[Warlock]

~snip~

I'll remain with the theory that it is the same horn :O! would be nice if Fernehalwes could confirm this lol

[HiirNoivl]

Ferney~ Come tell us a story!!!

[Ralos]

I just want to say you all are brilliant and I'm loving this thread as I read through it all. I'm not very analytical so I can't add much but I enjoy all the storyline reading.

[Siegtaru]

Still trying to find more shadowless people in CS's, but not much luck so far. x.x Starting to think that Travanchet is the only one they were hinting at lol... Anyone else had luck?