CG Midlander

[Anonymoose]

*Hiir adjusts her monocle*

It's elementary my dear Moose. The perpetrator always returns to the scene of the crime.

I think the 'ascian' theory is about as structurally likely as the 'Urianger' theory (which are both probably under the 'it was something else' possibility line), but just to spread the birdshot evenly over questions...

Obviously, when the Paragon was seen in proximity of the beast tribes, it was in humanoid form, or it wouldn't been "a Paragon was seen, let's go after it" but "HOLY HACHIMAKI, IT'S AN ASCIAN, LET'S NEVER GO THAT WAY AGAIN" If the ascians we see after is of the same cloth, why aren't they in guise?

[Catapult]

In Gridania side i didn't notice an Echo going that far ..what i DID notice is that from the start till you do a full pass out Echo and right after you are told you have this gift at the White Sands you experience the Echo repeatedly , a lot more often than after you are told you have such gift. In all CSs there is a woosh sound that goes together with a change of music and right after it the person you are talking with says something like "huh?, wut were was i? ah! yes as i was saying" you are jumping in and out of Echo constantly the line is lost when you are in and when you are out...so what is this supposed to mean?

The Gridanian one is also rather confusing. There are two sets of kids, one containing Powle and Sansa (always out of echo), the other containing Krimm and Fye (always in echo), but the two groups don't seem to know each other that well even though they both hang out at the acorn orchard. You get the feeling there has been a seperation of at least a few months, if not up to 10 years (it's hard to tell, but I'm betting about six months because you DO see Powle and co arriving at the echoed version of the festival as well, meaning they are alive and of kid-age), but this all gets turned on it's head with the ceremony at the end of the last quest.

You meet Dunstan out of echo prior to him being cleansed or meeting Fye. O-App-Pesi encourages you to make sure Fye meets Dunstan in the upcoming cleansing rites, since you have been the only person reportably being able to find her as she roams the woods searching for Dunstan. (They just don't realise you've been doing it in the echoed past, not the present.)
You then observe the cleansing rite inside an echo, make sure Fye meets Dunstan inside it and, by the power of that affection presented to the elementals at the ritual, everyone lives happily ever after. The wierd paradox leads me to the only possible conclusion I can think of:

You were rattled by the echo, not because you had an echo-in-an-echo, but because you managed to change history, which is something that normally isn't supposed to happen. A paradox mid-echo would likely knock you out as history re-aligns itself.

Any chance people can apply this concept to the Limsa or Ul'dahn stories?

[Warlock]

~snip~.

Are you as Sexy as you sound? .

I have come with another idea.. What if the Ascians are messengers of Odin , He been the Elder Primal Lord of the Underworld and the Ascians seem to come right from there..Odin sends them to free up the Primals why? we can speculate that but we have to take into account their behavior in ARR ...they will roam freely and they will serve whoever defeats them ..to me this will be canon ...so something will happen that will allow Primals to roam free w/o worrying of running out of aether and we see Odin walking through the forest as well.

We see him here encountering an adventurer
Is this how we will start off ARR?
So the Primals wont be as restricted anymore...Bahamut will be trapped in a Labyrinth too as stated by Yoshi-P.
Conclusion could be that Lousoix with the help of the 12 or someone else the dimension or world of Aether where the Primals live fusions with Hydaelyn allowing for a much more richer flow of it thus the world is more lush and alive and the Primals can roam freely.

[HiirNoivl]

I think the 'ascian' theory is about as structurally likely as the 'Urianger' theory (which are both probably under the 'it was something else' possibility line), but just to spread the birdshot evenly over questions...

Obviously, when the Paragon was seen in proximity of the beast tribes, it was in humanoid form, or it wouldn't been "a Paragon was seen, let's go after it" but "HOLY HACHIMAKI, IT'S AN ASCIAN, LET'S NEVER GO THAT WAY AGAIN" If the ascians we see after is of the same cloth, why aren't they in guise?

I like my theory moar! D'= But I see your point.

I'm not sure what you're asking, "Why aren't they in guise?" I thought Travanchet had a guise on the whole time and that the Ascian from Toll of the Warden is what they really look like. It would be simple for a shadow to shape shift.

Ooh Ooh! Here's an idea, what if the shape of the Ascian dependent entirely on your point of view, like how some folks say a Paragon is a girl cuz they're a girl, or a guy because they think Paragon sounds male and that's the form it takes.

That would be pretty wild.

Are you as Sexy as you sound? .

You'll find out in ARR.

[NoloeTazier]

I seriously doubt Urianger is a Paragon. I think it's already been established that he's an Archon, unless you think Archons are Paragons. But I don't see Louisoux as a Paragon since he's sending us to kill off summoned primals. I'm not convinced that the Paragon's asking that Ifrit spare us as an act of benevolence. As happy as I am that Hiir Noivl was not fried to a crisp right there, the fact that Ifrit was THERE was essentially the Paragon's FAULT.

So... I'm still thinking Paragons are Ascians.....

Just because he's an Archon I don't think automatically rules him out as a Paragon. The whole Paragon term was associated with him, it could have just been a nasty rumor since rumors had already been spread about him, but Urianger does know how to Summon.

The point I tried to make about 20 pages ago was that maybe Urianger taught the Beastmen how to summon the Primals because they weren't entirely sure if the City States would live up to par in their view. Remember they traveled to the City States to see if they had the power to challenge the Empire. Maybe Urianger taught the Beastmen how to summon so they could fight back against the Empire or protect themselves against the Empire. They had the knowledge to summon them and the knowledge to defeat them.

Now if Urianger isn't a Paragon, that still doesn't make them bad. Just because he/she/they taught the Primals how to summon, that doesn't necessarily make them evil, maybe to us and aether wise. But we don't know the entire motif yet. Also when the Beastmen summoned their Primal for the first time, I would think they would be able to tell if the Paragons were 'evil' like an Ascian. Evil as in, even more tainted than us, shadowless. The Sylphs are very smart and know their magic, if a Paragon was an Ascian I believe they would have known. When the Ascian began to appear in the Path quest the Beastmen became scared (and it seemed like they felt him before he even was even seen).

I have come with another idea.. What if the Ascians are messengers of Odin , He been the Elder Primal Lord of the Underworld and the Ascians seem to come right from there..Odin sends them to free up the Primals why?

Doubt it, I don't think Odin has any impact on 1.0 storyline. I'll still stick by my Odin coming from The Crystal Tower theory. I just feel like Odin has everything to do with the Allagan Empire and may have something to do with Solus zos Galvus but I dunno, the helms are kinda similar lol but I said the same thing about Odin and the Legatus.

[HiirNoivl]

The whole Paragon term was associated with him

Really? When was this? I totally missed that. I only saw how he was an Archon, not a Paragon. And the beast tribes were already summoning long before Urianger showed up. Unless he was shoe-horned in for the purpose of the SUE story. Urianger summons familiars, but I'm not sure if that is the same. He is a Arcanist and they'll have that ability in ARR (to summon Carbunkle and maybe more).

[NoloeTazier]

Really? When was this? I totally missed that. I only saw how he was an Archon, not a Paragon. And the beast tribes were already summoning long before Urianger showed up. Unless he was shoe-horned in for the purpose of the SUE story. Urianger summons familiars, but I'm not sure if that is the same. He is a Arcanist and they'll have that ability in ARR (to summon Carbunkle and maybe more).

I mean it was VAGUELY associated with him, just that Urianger was around but no one knew who he really was or what he was doing. I'd have to login to see the exact quest that he's mentioned. I know I was just saying he knows how to Summon lol. Not sure if Arcanists were being changed to what our 2.0 Arcanist/Summoner are, I only remember it being a Buffer/Debuffer Job. Urianger is the character I have the most questions about, which I'm working on in a big question/speculation post if I can ever get around to it =[

[HiirNoivl]

*sigh* There's such a fine line between good and evil in this game. "Evil" is just who ever is on the list of "Who's killing me now?" Even the primals aren't inherently evil. It's not their fault they're parasites on the planet.

My biggest beef with the Paragons is this: Surely they knew that summoning primals would bleed life out of the planet. They taught the beast tribes how to summon anyway, which brought on death and destructions, particularly in Garuda's case when she turned a Hamlet into a blender. Then killing the primals sent that precious aether up to Dalamud which brought on the seventh Umbral Era By making Bahamut too strong for the Twelve summoning to stop.

And now Louisoux is dead!

...I can't like them.

[NoloeTazier]

*sigh* There's such a fine line between good and evil in this game. "Evil" is just who ever is on the list of "Who's killing me now?" Even the primals aren't inherently evil. It's not their fault they're parasites on the planet.

My biggest beef with the Paragons is this: Surely they knew that summoning primals would bleed life out of the planet. They taught the beast tribes how to summon anyway, which brought on death and destructions, particularly in Garuda's case when she turned a Hamlet into a blender. Then killing the primals sent that precious aether up to Dalamud which brought on the seventh Umbral Era By making Bahamut too strong for the Twelve summoning to stop.

And now Louisoux is dead!

...I can't like them.

The appearance of Primals is what stopped the Garleans from invading Gridania then Ul'dah then Limsa. Also I'm not sure how much in proportion the Primals aether can be put into proportion to the aether that Van Darnus and the VIIth sapped from the land and sent to Dalamud. But I'd say if the Garleans had made it an all-out war, all of Eorzea would have fallen to their might, but because it was just the VIIth and XIVth we stood a chance.

One thing on that note that really confused me was, in the End of an Era CS it seems like what is left of the VIIth numberwise is on par with the Eorzean Alliance. Kinda sucks because you'd think 3 City States could field more troops than 1 Legion. But at least the main armies of Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa are still intact.

[Warlock]

Another piece to throw in. I have been doing quests and found one where 2 engineers are fleeing from the Empire for asylum in Gridania specifically from the Garlond house...so what does this mean? there is one family that are against the Empire's doing but so far we have heard of 4 families that been Galond,Darnus,Baelsar and Galvus and seems like there is rivalry between them Darnus been from a family that descends from ancient Allag he thought of himself to be superior to the rest, Garlond the family which Cid comes from are the best at machinery . i would love to see in ARR some inside conflict

Another thing i picked up . Lore states The Black Wolf conquering in Ala Migho to be stopped by a Primal and it was not Midgarsormr as he isn't a Primal... so which tribe knew how to summon back then? and if it wasn't a tribe, Who then did it?