CG Midlander

[Warlock]

Another piece to throw in. I have been doing quests and found one where 2 engineers are fleeing from the Empire for asylum in Gridania specifically from the Garlond house...so what does this mean? there is one family that are against the Empire's doing but so far we have heard of 4 families that been Galond,Darnus,Baelsar and Galvus and seems like there is rivalry between them Darnus been from a family that descends from ancient Allag he thought of himself to be superior to the rest, Garlond the family which Cid comes from are the best at machinery . i would love to see in ARR some inside conflict

Another thing i picked up . Lore states The Black Wolf conquering in Ala Migho to be stopped by a Primal and it was not Midgarsormr as he isn't a Primal... so which tribe knew how to summon back then? and if it wasn't a tribe, Who then did it?

[Catapult]

Another thing i picked up . Lore states The Black Wolf conquering in Ala Migho to be stopped by a Primal and it was not Midgarsormr as he isn't a Primal... so which tribe knew how to summon back then? and if it wasn't a tribe, Who then did it?

Good point. If I recall correctly, the progression was:
- 15 years ago: Ala Mhigo conquered. Advance halted by appearance of a primal. Garlemald consolidates occupation and digs in.
- 10 years ago: The battle for Silvertear Skies. Midgardsomr bites the dust and opens the floodgates for the domestic primals.

[Anonymoose]

- 15 years ago: Ala Mhigo conquered. Advance halted by appearance of a primal. Garlemald consolidates occupation and digs in.
- 10 years ago: The battle for Silvertear Skies. Midgardsomr bites the dust and opens the floodgates for the domestic primals.

This is something I've been hoping we'd get some clarity on by now. I'd always figured it was a given that Midgardsormr was to what this was in reference.

Now, from what I can tell, the armada that fought Midgardsormr was not part of either legion that we know. The XIVth took Ala Mhigo, but Gaius van Baelsar did this without much military power. He incited civil unrest and turned the people against their own system, taking power himself as Viceroy in the name of the Empire after it collapsed.

The children of Ala Mhigo were indoctrinated to the Garleans' cause, and 15 years later it is they who make up the majority of Nael van Darnus' VIIth.

Neither of these legions would have any use for a flagship as strong as Agrius at this time; it seems most likely to me that it was a long-range armada from Garlemald actual, who took Ala Mhigo as part of its advance before having to halt said advance to to the "unanticipated appearance of a primal" shortly after."

If you add all this up, does it not say that the original advance on Eorzea was still on in 1562 when The Battle of Silvertear Skies took place? Which means that it was halted after this date?

Was the Battle of Silvertear Skies not the last major advancement of the original campaign?

So what's up?

The only answer I can put together is that, when Midgardsormr first died, the rapid release of aether was capitalized on by the entities (primals) themselves. They're conscious beings, after all, and the Sylphs say that they live (not beyond the aether, but) amongst the aether. Is it possible that when Midgardsormr died, these entities were able to take enough of the escaping aether to temporarily form in our world, but without sufficient corporeality to interact with it on a level enough to consume more of it, thus bring required to be limited in capacity until the Paragon arrives?

If this isn't the case, I don't know what else can be said unless SE is deliberately reconning Midgardsormr's primal status.

Paragon unless he pulls a Severus Snape and works for both sides.. (spoilers). Summoning primals seems to fly in the face of everything the Archons stand for

That's the part of the idea that I struggle with most. I've been doing some reading about aether and the newly released information seems to mesh with the old perfectly to indicate that we're going back to the classics. It seems that we're going back to the Final Fantasy standard that the origin of all reality is The Crystal - that it itself is the creation of all aether - and that aether is the lifeblood of all that exists through and because of it.

The moogle primal fight says this best, where we're told that Good King Moggle Mog XII must be defeated to return the power of the crystal back to the realm so that it can nourish the land. Louisoix's statements during the end directly reflect these views, showing his concern that the over-draw of aether from the land could be detrimental ... and Mor Dhona turning into a wasteland after Midgardsormr's death pops the cork is a good example of what he's afraid of.

But does that make it against the Circle of Knowing's principles? No. Summoning is a means to an end and they're perfectly okay with it. The entire point of Living on a Prayer and the End of an Era cinematic was to summon twelve at once.

[Yenrii]

But does that make it against the Circle of Knowing's principles? No. Summoning is a means to an end and they're perfectly okay with it. The entire point of Living on a Prayer and the End of an Era cinematic was to summon twelve at once.

If I remember correctly, they do mention that summoning the twelve at once will hurt the planet as well, and that for this reason we would not be able to summon them at full power. I think the main goal here was, though the planet's aether flow would be disrupted, at least we would still have a planet with life on it.

What I'm most curious about is which god Urianger is the Archon for, and why he wasn't in the final cutscene. What does he DO when he disappears from our view? Surely spreading unease/distraction for the empire is not an important task when they're trying to destroy us directly...

[Catapult]

The entire point of Living on a Prayer and the End of an Era cinematic was to summon twelve at once.

But with the very careful consideration that this was a last-resort action against already cataclysmic conditions that would hopefully be mitigated by dispelling the aether absorbed by Dalamud back into the land. Papalymo makes it blatantly clear that they thought long and hard about this.

It would be silly to just summon the twelve for the sake of it. That's what the Ixal and Amal'jaa are doing.

[Warlock]

~snip~

So you are saying that the Primal that stopped Gaius Van Baelsar from moving onto the next city to conquer wasn't summoned at all but instead it was roaming freely stuffed with the Aether released when Midgarsormr broke the Aether seal with Agrius?

This leads to two questions tho:

1. Wouldn't this make the argument that Midgarsormr breaking the seal gave instant access to the Beast Tribes of their Primal moot?
2. Which Primal's attention did the Empire catch? going by location we can't assume it as Ala Mhigo is far from any 1.0 Beast Tribe's stronghold.

EDIT: The Empire didn't know about Primals before this event... it was after Gaius accepted defeat to the Emperor Galvuz that he declared war against Primals and Gaius is told to remain at Ala Mhigo

[Alaltus]

Good point. If I recall correctly, the progression was:
- 15 years ago: Ala Mhigo conquered. Advance halted by appearance of a primal. Garlemald consolidates occupation and digs in.
- 10 years ago: The battle for Silvertear Skies. Midgardsomr bites the dust and opens the floodgates for the domestic primals.

Didn't the incident at the Citadel happen 15 years ago? since Dalamud was Bahamut and the two Garlean Lagatus seemed to know/had a good idea what Dalamud really was could they have halted their advance because of the appearance/realization surrounding Bahamut?

[Anonymoose]

Didn't the incident at the Citadel happen 15 years ago? since Dalamud was Bahamut and the two Garlean Lagatus seemed to know/had a good idea what Dalamud really was could they have halted their advance because of the appearance/realization surrounding Bahamut?

The Citadel happened ten years ago, around the same year as the Battle of Silvertear Skies.

All I can find about it so far is that they gathered all of the information they had from Allag, built some testing facilities to work on its technical legacy, activated a lunar transmitter, and then as soon as it was all together - boom - whole city lost.

It is strange that this happened around the same time, you're right about that. However, from what I can gather about the Bozja Citadel incident, The Emperor was pleased with the demonstration of its power, and that's what scared Cid enough to leave.

[Yenrii]

Just a random side thought, but do you think the Paragon's Crown could tie in in any way? It probably just refers to the definition of paragon in that you need all DoW/M 50 to get it... but it's SE, so I'd like to examine every piece of info we have. :P

Also to throw in my 2 cents, I'm pretty sure that Urianger wouldn't be considered both an Archon and a Paragon unless he pulls a Severus Snape and works for both sides.. (spoilers). Summoning primals seems to fly in the face of everything the Archons stand for, so unless he really turned to the dark side I doubt it was him. He wasn't around for the summoning of the twelve though, so we can't really rule anything out... He seems to walk the fine line of rambling prophecy that lies between good and evil.

[Teakwood]

Moose -

There has to have been at least one Primal active in Eorzea -before- Midgardsormr's demise ten years ago - active fifteen years ago, to be precise, directly after the invasion of Ala Mhigo - to have stopped the Garlean invasion and necessitated them bringing in the Agrias - the big guns, as it were, five years later after Ala Mhigo was secure and the Empire was ready to continue its assault, Primal or no.

Maybe it knew that if the Empire advanced further it'd come into conflict with Midgardsormr and the resulting conflict would be bad for Eorzea?

I don't have any guesses as to the identity and only a few as to the motivation of our mystery primal, but the lore on the webpage is really unambiguous about this and I think it's going to be an important plot point in ARR. It's been bugging the hell out of me and my LS mates since I brought it up a week-ish ago when we were having an ARR hype-fest over IRC. >_>