Quote Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
No, I wasn't, you're interpreting too much into it.

I'm not saying they have to use my strategy, all I'm saying is, there is more than one strategy for a certain encounter but people are usually not willing to deviate from the one deemed standard. This not only applies to PUGs but also many LS.

And then comes the whole "selfish" thing. It's easy to say, someone is being selfish, but ultimately, if you don't enjoy playing the game, why are you playing (and paying)? And if you are enjoying the game, why is me wanting to enjoy it being selfish?
You are stating that a group removing you for not wanting to spend their limited play time in doing things your way, and then stating that you don't want to spend your limited play time gathering people to do things the way you want to do them. If this was not your intent I would go back and re-read your post, this is what you directly implied. This is unreasonable. There are many players in this game on many servers. If Linkshells you tried did not offer to you the play style you were interested in I really am sorry. But you should keep trying. Everyone should have fun in the game that they play.

But it seemed to me you were demonizing players for not following your play style. If your goals and the partys goals do not intersect, neither of you should be forced to cater to the other. Keep looking, you will find people to play with, and that's when you will have the most fun.

Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post

Your entire post is completely sensible, but I would like to point out a couple things. For starters, not all goals/desires are going to be playable in a game. Sometimes, it's not a viable option, period. This, however, has little to do with the mechanics already in the game. Sure, you can't tank with a Dragoon, but rarely does anyone ask for that. It's precisely because what they're looking for isn't already in the game that it's often hard to describe, and the points they suggest seem arbitrary or often unreasonable.

That's not to say that this inability is always the case, or that a set portion will be locked off -- a good game design can make more of those possible, even without reducing the enjoyment of what's in place already. But as such the changes needed to reach that greater accessibility probably won't come from adjustments within the existent game mechanics -- such as the restrictions given in example by the OP.
Exactly. For that level of adjustment, making a job in a situation more viable. Or making a job more desirable in more situations is a Design change, not a Player change. Expecting the player base to move away from optimum efficiency for no benefit to themselves or their goals is... well it's not going to work out in the player asking for the changes favor.
Totally true. But for many people, comparative advantage or comparative equity isn't the problem. The problem is more likely that the entire grand scale of the job can be had in approximately two hours with enough anima and a good party. Or, regardless of the time, the fact that the player never once made a unique decision in keeping with a "dragoon" or pursuing that role. You merely took a little extra time while leveling a strand that levels almost identically to every other strand.

It leaves a raid team basically estimated by how many good knives they can bring to a gun fight. They all cap out at about the same places, which should be fine in the name of balance, but to many none of those caps feel satisfyingly deep.

I don't think it's unreasonable to feel like jobs should be more than just a collection of tools. I'd personally rather have the collection of tools be turned into a more unique job or few jobs that both better define the player, and the player more choice-fully defines for himself.

And again, if changes were to be made to aid this, it probably wouldn't come from any 'adjustments' to the armory or job systems. It'd have to start further back.
I agree entirely. It would be nice to have that feel back that job is something unique. This was something FFXI had by having such a difficult leveling system. Back in the old days you knew someone with a 75 Job was an accomplished player and one look at their gear you could tell how dedicated they were. It's a depth of system we do not (did not) have in FFXIV. The ease of leveling is just, it's way too easy. But you can still take pride in your job. Proper melds in good gear can show a level of dedication. You can tell those that just leveled a job to level and and those that care about it generally through this. I generally agree, most of the time it feels like a job is just something you have done for whatever reason. Very little "meat" to them. This really becomes apparent to anyone that DOES do things that require switching. It's get gear, figure out rotation, do rotation. Eventually it becomes mechanical. The difference usually between a good Player on a job and a bad one is which one knows what to do when watching for a Mobs TP move.

I would really like 2.0 to add more to jobs to make them feel more unique and have some meaning. But again, that's absolutely a design issue.