Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

[Altanas]

I agree that being able to change roles on the fly makes the game less hassle free compared to 11.

What I would like however, for Instances/Dungeons/NM/HNM etc is a system similar to 11 when HNM's went into "Rage Mode" but in reverse so that it affects the player not for the monster. For example

a) as you progress through the instance/battle, the player would become "raged" in the sense that if they are a WHM throughout the raid, each section of the instance cleared/as Boss's HP is decreased, this adds a % boost to your player's spells/abilities, eg Cures heal 0% > 5% > 10% more. Or even alter the nature of spells, cure might become innate cura, vorpal thrust might do phys and magical damage, etc. The idea being that you probably would want to build up this "raged" status so the end boss would be somewhat easier, and also all jobs can develop a wider usefulness in the dungeon so theres no "ranged only" "magic only" "drg only" mentality.

If you change roles during the instance/battle, you lose that "raged" effect or maybe even get a "de-rage" effect where you start attract -% penalties to your spells and abilities which last for significant time to the end of the instance

For the career minded players, perhaps the "raged" effect can stay beyond the instance provided they switch to no other DOM/DOW.

That way, players even though not bound to one spec, can specialise/enhance their character further.

[MrKupo]

There's a difference between being able to change jobs and actually being good at those jobs. I would say I'm a pretty good Bard, and I set out to play as such along with DRG. The thing is when I play DRG, I'll often find that whoever is playing bard isn't doing as well. I have been compared with better DRG finding that I am somehow doing less DPS than others despite a close gear setup.

I'm sure we all have our go-to tanks and whms. Not everyone plays each class the same, and for the classes we do love and focus on, we tend to play that much better. So there is a sense of skill that might keep you more attached to your class of choice.

In any case, if you do not like a job that someone wants you to play as, you have an obligation to tell them that you don't like playing that job. That will often shed some light on how well you play that role. If someone doesn't like tanking, then they're just not going to tank as well. What I find worse than being asked to play a job I don't like is being asked and then being complained at for not being the absolute best at that role.

[Aenarion]

@Crevox

And what's your point? it's going to happen regardless of whether there is an armory system or not. In fact, it'll happen as long as the classes/jobs aren't homogenous.

Want to try out your own strategy/composition? put the party together yourself. You're not a special snowflake, you're not entitled to join parties that others have taken the effort and initiative to setup.

[Aerenvel]

I dunno guys looks like your arguing over nothing tbh.

Your not entitled to join groups looking for something specific if you want to be apart of it conform to requirments of that group or wait to make your own with your own. Sry you dont jump into someones party and make the rules(however you can make suggestions) That is in any MMO
Another big thing you forgeti is if they add content dungeons witha que system, for those with not as much time can que for (THEIR) job and play that job.
Find a more chill LS if you are not enjoying yourself find people who you will enjoy playing with.
Rem Also which i am sure everyone has to take a step back and remember it is not all about you them myself included.
It is not all about winning but people dont like to keep failing,
Also with AddOn Mods it will be easier to make more precise caculations and more indepth strats.
Should suggest something like class specific party buffs/aura like diff buff depending on the type of party you have setup with a cap out so you cant stack like for example if DRG gave a dmg up it would cap out at 3 or w/e.
Something that promotes Diverse party lineups and not all about dps output.
or magic def up with caster lineup pld mt war dmg neg a refresh effect w/e
Not saying it has to be like this just an idea.

[Aerenvel]

Also you seem to discredit support classes, if you have a bard doing 500dps but increases the dps of overall group tank included
now each member is doing an extra 100dps the 5drgs went from 900 to 1000 each the tank went up to 600dps from 500
Is that Bard not doing the most dps overall? ZZZzzz

[Talshara_Blade]

I think it's a wonderful thing that people can change their "fighting stance" so to speak by simply switching weapons. Makes a lot more sense than running home to a magic moogle. The armory system is fine and fantastic. Flexibility? yes, please.

[Warlock]

I think they got down the individuality well ..what jobs are missing to some extent is pride and dedication like early FFXI BLM only ppl were respected and they had the best gear at the time a none would question you why not lvl something else..14 is missing that kind of...

[Bluewhite]

I really think the armory system is silly, especially being able to switch classes anywhere. Your class becomes a meaningless choice. Anyone can be anything anytime, so who or what you've grown yourself to be ends up being irrelevant. There's so many times where this comes into play.

1. People want you to swap to the job that is most effective for the situation, all the time; too bad if you want to play X, you're forced to play Y or be kicked. In FFXI I'm sure this happened too, but mid dungeon they're like "we're against coincounter? you can't play melee, swap to ranged now or we're kicking." This happened for many encounters. In other games such as FFXI it was like "I know that job you're playing isn't THE BEST for the situation, but I'm sure we'll get by." People also don't seem to understand that just because you have the class/job doesn't mean you want to play it and doesn't mean you are experienced/geared/skilled with it. I played WHM a lot and sometimes I was asked to go BLM and I said I probably wasn't going to be comfortable with it (lack of gear, didn't play it enough to feel safe on enmity, didn't want to take the risk) and people just didn't seem to understand why I wouldn't go BLM for them (and I was seen as rude).

2. It's not fun when you're like "oh check out my cool dragoon armor and lance" and the other guy goes "oh yeah" and just swaps to it too immediately. It ruins individuality, and gets rid of the ability to say "I AM A DRAGOON" (because technically you can be anything anytime). The class/job choice you make is meaningless, and you just don't have that good feeling about it. I understand people can swap jobs in FFXI too, but anyone can be anything anytime... I want to feel good about having Carbuncle walk around with me, and yet anyone can have him out with them with a push of a button.

3. A large portion of the reason everyone levels up every class/job is because it's so easy. Swap your weapon, gg good to go. It's difficult to feel accomplished saying like "I am a level 50 WHM" in your party. Not only does most of the party have that too, they'll be like "oh I can just switch to that." Sure, you can switch at your house or whatever in FFXI, but that was a LOT more effort to take for a lot of reasons (gotta have the gear which was harder to fully get, had to have the high level job which was harder, and had to spend a long time going back to who knows where to switch and come back). You were appreciated for playing that class, you had individuality, you felt good; in this game, who cares. If a party is 7/8 and just needs a WHM, instead of looking for that dedicated soul who actually is skilled and geared and loves the class, it's just "I'll just switch to WHM" *equip staff*. In worse situations, someone who loves their job (that dedicated dragoon guy) is forced to play WHM because the party is pressuring him to (they know he has WHM).

In FFXIV 2.0, I'm gonna want to main Summoner. But, what bums me out, is that EVERYONE is going to be leveling it at launch, even though a lot of people have zero interest in it. They're just doing it "because they can." Yeah I know a lot of people want to see the lower level content and don't have any other classes to experience it, but still... what's going to set me apart from the people that are just "summonerlols" and me, a serious dedicated person to the job? It should feel like a strong dedication and others should be like "wow, you got that far with summoner/you have that much gear/SOMETHING" rather than just *swap weapon* "yup I'm as good as you now."

I'm finding it difficult to articulate my point, but I hope you understand.

And I know I posted this in another thread, but I felt it was a slightly different topic and the content of the post deserved its own thread.

EDIT: Here's a good post by IronSoup that also explain some of what I'm trying to say:



Here's more from me:

That's because XIV is designed based on the concept that each player has no main career job, and you use best setup to beat the content, instead of your fav career job.

Which is a bit different design concept compare with XI. Although post Abyssea XI is getting away from it too.....everyone and their mother all has 10 jobs 10 empy 10 relic etc.

I have to point out though, old FFXI gives sense of career job for players, only because it takes LARGE amount of effort and time to lv/gear up 1 job, on top of limited inventory spaces.

It seems that majority of player base would rather want to play several jobs and be the same as everyone else, instead of focusing on 2~3 and get really good at it. I'm the minority, and I really only enjoy pushing the limit and mastering 1 job. But I guess minority can't change anything.