Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

[Onisake]

So summing this part up, it's "because it doesn't work with this strategy". Why not try a different one? Why does it have to be a BLM burn? Because it's the fastest? Safest? Always repeating the same strategy is boring.

Arcell hit what i wanted to say pretty well.

Again, and i can't say this enough, it largely depends on the group you are in. It's up to your leader to decide 1) what strat you're running 2) possible deviations to that strat

if you don't like how it's being run. either leave or start your own group.

Not really looking to pick a fight, but LNC/DRG is easily the most fun class to fight GB.

I exclusively fought GB on my Lancer because it was the most fun, you just have to learn the range. MNK can do it to but its like a stick and run kind of tactic.

Player skill overrides most things. due to latency and skill some players may not be able to hit and run effectively. what works for you doesn't work for everyone. some groups off the wall strats are successful. others they are not.

I'm willing to try any strat with any player. but not everyone likes to do that. some people dont' like running content over and over again trying to figure out exactly how to get off the wall strats to work. they find it a waste of time and would rather just do what is known to work. there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

there is somethign wrong with someone joining a group. saying they have DRG, WHM, and MNK available. and then complaining they have to go WHM when the group needs a whm and already has 3 DRGs.

the reality of the situations is, if you only want to play one job, only level one job. if you leveled all jobs trying to figure out which job you wanted to play, just say the job you dont' want to play isnt' geared, or dont' mention you have it.

as someone who runs events and has organized PUGs i can't stress how infuriating it is for someone to say 'I have drg, whm, blm, brd, and war' and then ask them to switch to blm and hear 'i don't want to play blm. mnk will work fine' it's not their decision. it's mine because i'm leading the group.

usually I will ask to see their gear. if i think it's up to par i'll allow it. but more likely than not i end up saying. 'sorry, i need you on blm if we're going to win this. we're cutting it close as it is. I know you don't want to play blm but i need you to decide if you'd rather win this fight with us, or try the fight with someone else with a questionable strat. not all of us have 4 hours to waste trying new things'

[Syrokko]

I wonder what percentage of the playerbase would complain if they were to introduce job-locking upon entry into an instance...
Just a funny thought.

The game would be so much more interesting if the players didn't have the freedom to change into whatever job they wanted to change to at almost any given time.

[Deakka]

You also need to remember the individual skill caps on jobs/classes. BLM has the most relatively simple rotation, in addition to being ranged and out of PBAoE. Monks as a contrast, have a much higher skill cap. I'll echo the sentiment that people will go with blm stacked groups only because... it's just easier for a bad player to do well on BLM than for an average player to do well on MNK.

Ideally with 2.0, they pick the learning curve up on BLM, taper it down on melee jobs, and give each job the tools that they're lacking in 1.0. No cooldown weaponskills means that MNK's (and BRD's, who at least had 3 AoE ws) will be able to compete in an AoE spamming environment along with DRG and BLM.

[Alerith]

My fastest Ifrit kill has been 1 PLD, 5 LNC, 1 BLM and a WHM.

You can talk about how the system doesn't work, but it does. For the longest time, people though "BLM or Bust." But then people started experimenting, and experimentation has led to alternate strategies.

The system isn't flawed. The thinking of the community is.

[Cailae]

I wonder what percentage of the playerbase would complain if they were to introduce job-locking upon entry into an instance...
Just a funny thought.

The game would be so much more interesting if the players didn't have the freedom to change into whatever job they wanted to change to at almost any given time.

Player reaction would most likely to be complain, and then those that need it would find the new strategy that fits their needs. They would find the new optimal job setup and fight patterns and then shout for those. It wouldn't change availability for players without those jobs, at all. It would in fact more likely make it rougher for people joining through shouts as a guaranteed win in say, a TA 17 minute run would require much better gear than you can currently get away with in an optimal job changing setup. (the rest of this post is a more general reply, mostly aimed at the OP, this top part is the only direct reply to you)

We can't speak for ARR because we don't know what the requirements will be. We know that a lot is changing. Will the TA requirements for relics be easier? Will more jobs be viable? We don't know. But I can speak for what the game was up to the end.

when it comes to shout groups, people do not want to experiment. They want to go in, get their win, get what they came for, and leave. a PUG shout is not the time to be learning to testing a new strategy. This is even more the case when doing TA runs for relics. TA runs are pretty intense things. small mistakes can cost the entire run, in many cases. A group better geared/more practiced can get some time leeway. But it is a bit selfish of someone to expect a group to carry you when they work that hard because you don't want to change jobs.

This is not to say that there is not a place for testing new runs, or going with a different setup. But that is where your linkshell and friends come in. If you want to get people together to do a slower run/not 5 chests/not TA for relic run, you should! I am entirely sure that all dungeons are doable without optimal setups, and you can finish them this way. But, if you want to do them this way, you need to take the initiative. I see a lot of "I was kicked from a group..." well if you were kicked from a group that means that your goals and theirs didn't line up. The lesson here is not "Change the game to suit me" the lesson here is "Find people with my goals/desires" to play with.

Showing off your Dragoon with it's gear and then having someone immediately change to the same gear, what is the problem? Are you upset someone else that has other jobs put in the same effort for their dragoon, while also juggling other things? Should they not take pride in their stuff the same as you. If your Dragoons are identical, the situation goes one of two ways. Either your gear is easy to obtain, in which case you have a misplaced sense of pride. Or, You both worked hard on your Dragoon, and both should show pride. Dedication in one thing does not me dedication from other things.

The problem here seems to stem more from people that want to do content that is out of their reach currently. They want one job to be able to do all content. And I can understand this, entirely. But, that is a design decision. When they made the TA requirements on dungeons for Relics, players adapted and figured out how to do it. and to do it has high requirements of the players. It is not the community's fault, they adapted to the design. It is also not another player's responsibility to cater to your play style, which is what many players in here imply. "It can be done this way, if people would try!" and you may be right. but when I log in and start shouting to form a group and I have limited play time, I am not looking to experiment. I want my win before I have to go. Form your own party to try different combinations! Maybe you'll find a better way! And then next time I make a party I'll try the new better way, and you'll be an optimal addition.

In the weeks leading up to the final save, there was a mad rush to do Nael Van Darnus before it went away forever. There was an optimal setup, that you would often see shout groups looking for. However, in my linkshell, we did the fight dozens of times with sub-optimal setups. We took Dragoons and Warriors and extra Paladins and every job under the sun, geared well or in full AF with no melds. We got the wins, sometimes after wipes to account for the odd combinations. But it was very time consuming, sometimes hours for a win or 2. But that was on our time. Not anyone elses. I would also point out here that without dedicated members with lots of geared jobs changing around, it never would have happened. Flexibility is not a sin.

In the end you want to do content and you want your job to mean something. Both of those things are (were) possible. However it also seems you want to take away from others that are just as dedicated but also have other jobs they do. If you want the game to change to allow more flexibility in what jobs can get content done, I am right there behind you. I would rather not have to switch jobs 3 times to do a TA run in AV(WHM to BLM to MNK). But you have to expect from others that if an "optimal" way exists, they will want to use it. Even if they lock out job changing inside of an instance (or even outside of town) People with multiple jobs will still have an advantage here. Because as optimal ways are found, they will be able to go to more things. Even if we took out optimal, and went purely with the trinity (and make no mistake this is a trinity game) someone with all jobs leveled and geared can take up any spot, and thus in any group not full, they will get in, possibly over you.

If you want to make the game more accessible to more jobs, awesome! If you want to hold other players back that choose to be more flexible? Never going to happen. Not in a game with the job system.

[Totorixiii]

This guy sounds like a LS leader I know of.

I have blm and whm to 50 and with what I consider the best gear the game can offer at this present time. Triple and double melted gear. - Half way into relic quest - I currently have war and pld at 50 also and other jobs around 30ish, but hey, this was not enough when I applied to his LS. He told me "Sorry, but you don't have MNK all the way to 50, so we can't take you.” So, attitude like this only discourage people from enjoying the game.

Who wouldn't take you in ls, with 4 jobs at 50 especially with blm whm pld war 50?
Unless the ls is already full.

If you ever need ls let me know in game at 2.0 ARR.

[Meta]

And that would change exactly nothing, except time spent running back to change. It would go from changing when you get to the dungeon to people telling you what to come on beforehand and if you don't come on that then the whole party has to wait while you go back and change. It also means if you want to switch things up and try new strategies, most of the party has to run back and switch which takes up a lot of time.

...Restricting when we can switch classes doesn't change that, it just means it'll take more time. People aren't going to start taking non-optimal classes just because it's harder to switch.

This wins the thread. The same people who will ask you to switch on the spot will be asking you to leave and come back as the job or GTFO. Without on-the-fly switching, you're just making everyone afk for another 5-15 minutes and delay whatever it is that you need to do. It's an utterly pointless waste of time.

Not only that, having switching on the fly can actually help you in your case where you only can/want to play as one job; someone else can switch to accommodate your inability to play the desired role.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove the most convenient and defining feature of FFXIV, especially with gear sets on the horizon. I'd resub in an instant SE added these features to FFXI.

[Totorixiii]

Everybody supports the on the fly job switch. Well maybe the minority who doesn't support it simply because it's their personal preference to display their pride and dedication and that they are unhappy by being ask to change to a job they don't really like and it disrupt their enjoyment of the game.

I don't know how many percentage wise as whole FFXIV community but my guts tells me it's the minority.

Everyone on this thread is correct be it the majority or minority. We just gotta learn to embrace the system and come 2.0 ARR we'll have to learn again to embrace the system while continue to give our feedback on this forum to improve the overall game play

[Altanas]

I agree that being able to change roles on the fly makes the game less hassle free compared to 11.

What I would like however, for Instances/Dungeons/NM/HNM etc is a system similar to 11 when HNM's went into "Rage Mode" but in reverse so that it affects the player not for the monster. For example

a) as you progress through the instance/battle, the player would become "raged" in the sense that if they are a WHM throughout the raid, each section of the instance cleared/as Boss's HP is decreased, this adds a % boost to your player's spells/abilities, eg Cures heal 0% > 5% > 10% more. Or even alter the nature of spells, cure might become innate cura, vorpal thrust might do phys and magical damage, etc. The idea being that you probably would want to build up this "raged" status so the end boss would be somewhat easier, and also all jobs can develop a wider usefulness in the dungeon so theres no "ranged only" "magic only" "drg only" mentality.

If you change roles during the instance/battle, you lose that "raged" effect or maybe even get a "de-rage" effect where you start attract -% penalties to your spells and abilities which last for significant time to the end of the instance

For the career minded players, perhaps the "raged" effect can stay beyond the instance provided they switch to no other DOM/DOW.

That way, players even though not bound to one spec, can specialise/enhance their character further.

[MrKupo]

There's a difference between being able to change jobs and actually being good at those jobs. I would say I'm a pretty good Bard, and I set out to play as such along with DRG. The thing is when I play DRG, I'll often find that whoever is playing bard isn't doing as well. I have been compared with better DRG finding that I am somehow doing less DPS than others despite a close gear setup.

I'm sure we all have our go-to tanks and whms. Not everyone plays each class the same, and for the classes we do love and focus on, we tend to play that much better. So there is a sense of skill that might keep you more attached to your class of choice.

In any case, if you do not like a job that someone wants you to play as, you have an obligation to tell them that you don't like playing that job. That will often shed some light on how well you play that role. If someone doesn't like tanking, then they're just not going to tank as well. What I find worse than being asked to play a job I don't like is being asked and then being complained at for not being the absolute best at that role.