Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

[Ruisu]

1) The developers designed the system in that switching is that easy. The content is also designed so that switching is optimal. The systems the developers designed cause it to be optimal to switch, which makes people enforce it.
2) "Bad players" is just about every PUG group I've played in, if you want to use that term.

And yeah, the last thing you said is right, a lot of things are viable, but the playerbase won't allow it because it's too easy to switch to something that IS optimal - to the point that they won't invite you if you don't obey that rule.

THAT IS THE FAULT OF THE PLAYERBASE. NOT THE DEVS. The devs made full aware of making content viable for all setups. Again, it's not ideal, and it's not gonna be the most efficient way of getting things done, but it's still possible to speed run with most setups. Some of us actually really like this system. So stop playing with bad/closed minded players if that's the case.

[Crevox]

THAT IS THE FAULT OF THE PLAYERBASE. NOT THE DEVS. The devs made full aware of making content viable for all setups. Again, it's not ideal, and it's not gonna be the most efficient way of getting things done, but it's still possible to speed run with most setups. Some of us actually really like this system. So stop playing with bad/closed minded players if that's the case.

It is the devs fault, because within the system they designed and created it is beneficial and optimal to go for the classes that work best. It's easy and effective because of how simple it is to get classes to 50 and how easy it is to switch classes on the fly.

Whether or not people are correct about their decisions for forming parties is not the devs fault, but the above statement is the core issue that creates this environment.

Theres a simple fix to this for content... they make it so you cant switch inside an Instance.. there you go.. no need overhauling their entire system.

It doesn't resolve the issue, but it's a start. It's a positive change regardless.

[Ruisu]

It is the devs fault, because within the system they designed and created it is beneficial and optimal to go for the classes that work best. It's easy and effective because of how simple it is to get classes to 50 and how easy it is to switch classes on the fly.

Whether or not people are correct about their decisions for forming parties is not the devs fault, but the above statement is the core issue that creates this environment.

Because people don't do this in XI with BLM burn parties, or in other games in general. The issue is that people want to get content done as quickly efficiently as possible? Well okay. How dare those pesky devs give us the freedom to do so.

[Crevox]

Because people don't do this in XI with BLM burn parties, or in other games in general. The issue is that people want to get content done as quickly efficiently as possible? Well okay. How dare those pesky devs give us the freedom to do so.

I meant optimal and beneficial in terms of the difficulty of finding the people. It is easy to get the job you NEED because anyone can just class switch. This is a good thing, but it also means that non-optimal builds are never considered/tested/utilized, and if a certain class doesn't fit the "optimal setup" of the content they may never see the content (unless they switch classes, but they shouldn't have to).

[Alerith]

I meant optimal and beneficial in terms of the difficulty of finding the people. It is easy to get the job you NEED because anyone can just class switch. This is a good thing, but it also means that non-optimal builds are never considered/tested/utilized, and if a certain class doesn't fit the "optimal setup" of the content they may never see the content (unless they switch classes, but they shouldn't have to).

Ehhhh, yes and no.

For the longest time, WAR was the one and only tank you would ever tank into Aurum Vale. Then some rogues decided to try Paladin tanks. This wasn't well received by the community at large, but as time went on, and people saw that it could actually work pretty damn good, it started to pan out better.

[Crevox]

Ehhhh, yes and no.

For the longest time, WAR was the one and only tank you would ever tank into Aurum Vale. Then some rogues decided to try Paladin tanks. This wasn't well received by the community at large, but as time went on, and people saw that it could actually work pretty damn good, it started to pan out better.

I would say this is more so likely due to the desperation of being unable to find a tank. Someone probably grabbed a paladin because they couldn't find a warrior and said "lol why were we looking for a warrior, this works fine."

Besides that, yeah it's bound to happen, but the system still highly discourages it.

[Arcell]

I would say this is more so likely due to the desperation of being unable to find a tank. Someone probably grabbed a paladin because they couldn't find a warrior and said "lol why were we looking for a warrior, this works fine."

Besides that, yeah it's bound to happen, but the system still highly discourages it.

Now you're just assuming things. Despite what you may think, people out there do like trying different strategies. Sometimes a given strategy just doesn't work for a group so they have to tweak it to suit their own group. When I started doing dungeon speed runs with a group we changed the setup for each dungeon at least 5 times before we found one that worked best for us. Wasn't the decided on most optimal strategy but it worked for us. I'm sure we weren't the only ones.

[Ruisu]

I meant optimal and beneficial in terms of the difficulty of finding the people. It is easy to get the job you NEED because anyone can just class switch. This is a good thing, but it also means that non-optimal builds are never considered/tested/utilized, and if a certain class doesn't fit the "optimal setup" of the content they may never see the content (unless they switch classes, but they shouldn't have to).

People will always go for the person who is better-suited for an event. This is true with anything. This is where you take matters into your own hands and do content your way. Do you want to do everything with one job? Sure. Good luck finding people who agree, because again, it's a problem with the community. Not the dev team. The dev team is simply giving you the option to do so, and building content so that switching jobs doesn't make the content a walk in the park.

[Crevox]

People will always go for the person who is better-suited for an event. This is true with anything. This is where you take matters into your own hands and do content your way. Do you want to do everything with one job? Sure. Good luck finding people who agree, because again, it's a problem with the community. Not the dev team. The dev team is simply giving you the option to do so, and building content so that switching jobs doesn't make the content a walk in the park.

They will go for the person who is better-suited provided it is reasonable to do so. If the damage difference between monk and dragoon isn't that big, they're not gonna bother going for dragoon... just get one or the other. However, if it's VERY EASY to get a dragoon instead of a monk (which is the case with this class switching system) then by all means they're just gonna turn down the monk and wait for the dragoon.

Now you're just assuming things.

It was just a likely example, not an assumption (hence why I put that final statement).

[Hulan]

THAT IS THE FAULT OF THE PLAYERBASE. NOT THE DEVS. The devs made full aware of making content viable for all setups. Again, it's not ideal, and it's not gonna be the most efficient way of getting things done, but it's still possible to speed run with most setups. Some of us actually really like this system. So stop playing with bad/closed minded players if that's the case.

I'm still on the fence on the issue at hand, but I'd like to make one thing clear. It is not the dev team's fault that content is prohibitively restrictive, or that players expect their party members to be able to switch to any of 5 classes on the fly. It is, however, their responsibility.

Making a game is hard work; really, really hard work. A lot of things can fall through the cracks and be forgotten or lack polish. I am often the first to give developers a long leash for these types of things. But we cannot forget that this is their game. If there is a problem, something that is causing many players to feel antagonized, that is their responsibility, and they should be held accountable for it.