Why do we have classes AND jobs again?

[Colvin]

I said in another thread that MRD is a terrible idea to become DRK. there are more than the 5 Job skills that DRK would need added to make it a DRK, and MRD only has Bloodbath, no magic. It would also have more too much HP. DRK needs its own class to level up, so does RDM, because GLD doesnt have anything a RDM would use. It would make it a tank class because that is what kind of skills GLD has.

given the changes in ARR, couldnt they redistribute the MRD abilities, add a few more and put most of the magic as the DRK abilities you get? Also, the HP problem is easily solved by just adjusting your stats when you equip the stone (or however they do it). dont you think...?

[Colvin]

Say you had all of the above abilities on your action bar. If you had a system that recognized what Job you were setting yourself up for by analyzing the abilities you had on your bar and recommended certain bonuses by equipping a Job stone that you had unlocked.

See? now that is new thinking. I like that! I was never one of the people that thought restricting classes/jobs was the answer. Rebalancing is possible but difficult.

Ive always thought that a general lack of diversity and low availability of abilities in general has been an FFMMO issue. Lots of the players I know that left FFXI and FFXIV, partly did so because they felt like there just wasnt enough abilities per class.

[whoopeeragon]

lol its all good, the topic always pops up from time to time.

Problem with taking Red Mage from Gladiator again is the Armory and Class system. Red Mage would have no use with the majority of abilities unless it was a new tanking job. The only 'real' way to make Red Mage is to build it from a whole new Class. Such as examples in the past: Fencer -> Red Mage. Just like we can't have Summoner without building a whole new Class i.e. Arcanist. Many new jobs we want, will have to come from base Classes because there's just no way to branch them off what we currently have. (except for my example of Ranger, Ranger would be able to branch off Archer without too much difference, but that will be a rare case)

Thing is, that the armoury system also lays out having multiple jobs stem from one class. GLA can become Elementalist, ARC as you said can become Ranger, PGL can become Berserker, LNC can become Dark Knight, CNJ can become Geomancer, THM can become Scholar, Fencer can become Red Mage or Mystic Knight, Arcanist can become Summoner or Time Mage...

The armoury system just needs some small changes, addition and removal and change of abilities, to actively see a large part in it. Just streamline the armoury and job system and they will complement one another.

And when I say removal, I get another idea with class <-> job changes; when you change to a job, you lose the ability to use an ability which is not part of your specialisation. Say for example, Ranger and Bard from Archer. As Ranger focuses more on damage and Bard on support, when they change from Archer, Ranger loses ability to cast Swiftsong, and Bard loses Raging Strike.

[Rhomagus]

See? now that is new thinking. I like that! I was never one of the people that thought restricting classes/jobs was the answer. Rebalancing is possible but difficult.

Ive always thought that a general lack of diversity and low availability of abilities in general has been an FFMMO issue. Lots of the players I know that left FFXI and FFXIV, partly did so because they felt like there just wasnt enough abilities per class.

I agree honestly. I think the thing that defines jobs more overall is their lack of abilities rather than the specific abilities you get from equipping a Job stone and that is unfortunate. I'd like those Job abilities to have a little more weight added to them to really help their individuality shine.

If the system is the same in ARR I don't really see myself playing as a DRK if it comes off of GLA with a vast majority of the abilities being similar to a PLD I don't think I'd really like it so much. If they increase the effectiveness / usefulness with the Job specific abilities perhaps I could get behind it but even GLA is a little too tankish for my liking (which is why I also advocate for balancing both GLA and BLM respectively).

[Seirra_Lanzce]

some people prefer to play as classes, because of the versatile and survivability to it. these two keywords is warrant enough for everyone to play it.

Including me.

[Colvin]

As Ranger focuses more on damage and Bard on support, when they change from Archer, Ranger loses ability to cast Swiftsong, and Bard loses Raging Strike.

See that doesnt sound diverse enough to me to be actual separate classes... seems like seperate ability tiers at BEST

[Reika]

given the changes in ARR, couldnt they redistribute the MRD abilities, add a few more and put most of the magic as the DRK abilities you get? Also, the HP problem is easily solved by just adjusting your stats when you equip the stone (or however they do it). dont you think...?

But they arent likely to do that. I am also in disagreemant about not giving us new classes to level up, so they should add new classes based on just that.

[Colvin]

some people prefer to play as classes, because of the versatile and survivability to it. these two keywords is warrant enough for everyone to play it.

Including me.

It almost kinds of sounds like you agree with the OP but im not sure...

[Colvin]

But they arent likely to do that. I am also in disagreemant about not giving us new classes to level up, so they should add new classes based on just that.

given the options they have, I don't see why they wouldn't do it. Of course, I also don't want fencer because I love RDM and wouldnt want to level another class just to use a bunch of abilities I already have. Also, I can't see fencer really being all that different than GLD with no shield... maybe less defence... In terms of things like repost, GLD already has Phalanx which is already a reposte.

I don't want to see classes added just to add jobs because it is just more time spent grinding to grind.

[whoopeeragon]

See that doesnt sound diverse enough to me to be actual separate classes... seems like seperate ability tiers at BEST

They're different JOBS not classes, which is the point! They share the Archer's basic skill-set, but lose what is definitely not part of their specialisation. Meanwhile, Archer can be expanded further by not just being able to use the basic tiers of those specialisations, but learning variants of both that are not as potent as Ranger or Bard's specialised skills but enough to warrant it as a versatile option.

given the options they have, I don't see why they wouldn't do it. Of course, I also don't want fencer because I love RDM and wouldnt want to level another class just to use a bunch of abilities I already have. Also, I can't see fencer really being all that different than GLD with no shield... maybe less defence... In terms of things like repost, GLD already has Phalanx which is already a reposte.

I don't want to see classes added just to add jobs because it is just more time spent grinding to grind.

I personally also don't see a problem adding a class to level it up. Is it so hard to level and work to get to know to play a game? As far as I know, FFXI takes even longer to level up considering it's expanse of playable jobs, and they're about to add two more...

To me, it sounds as if you are advocating a reason to actually USE classes rather then remove jobs. o.o I'm very confused as towards your stance now.