Why do we have classes AND jobs again?

[Wynn]

I personally wish that the classes had just been renamed to traditional FF jobs and the abilities rearranged with stricter cross classing options. I find the armory system to paradoxically be limiting rather than opening up options. Tying what you are to the weapon you carry is disappointing among other things. They could have just given us one "jobless" class and then jobs, or even more like tactics with squire and alchemist to open melee and mage classes, to accomodate solo play instead of what the system actually morphed into.

I do find Gladiator, Thaumaturge, and even Archer useful outside of jobs, but that is about it.

In the end though, this what we have and it isn't going to change so we just need to make due with it.

[EinSoFZ]

I think they were added because people wanted to play as a White Mage and not a Conjurer. Of course, that distinction had to come with some change (albeit a small one) or else it really was just a name change. So in effort to keep what they've done, SE is likely just going to try and play up the jobs end such that there's some significant distinction between classes. Maybe as the level cap increases, it will become more noticeable.

[Colvin]

I think they were added because people wanted to play as a White Mage and not a Conjurer. Of course, that distinction had to come with some change (albeit a small one) or else it really was just a name change. So in effort to keep what they've done, SE is likely just going to try and play up the jobs end such that there's some significant distinction between classes. Maybe as the level cap increases, it will become more noticeable.

It seems like alot of the way they are shot in the foot in terms of that is based around there being only 1 type of weapon that you can use for each job/class because of the armory approach. Gladitors for instance, traditionally, could use WAY more than a sword and shield. Seems like if they wanted to branch out the uniqueness of the classes, they should explore being able to equip multiple types of weapons.

[Recycler]

Personally I've always preferred the switchable superset type of jobs which take considerable time to fully master (each class having 3 job branches, for example), but I'm excited for what they have in store for ARR as well.

[Colvin]

Personally I've always preferred the switchable superset type of jobs which take considerable time to fully master (each class having 3 job branches, for example), but I'm excited for what they have in store for ARR as well.

I think this is kind of what they ARE going for (but 2 jobs per tree) at the moment. But do you mean 1 class + 3 jobs? such that there are 4 branches to the trunk or that when you move to jobs, the class is a trunk and you don't go back?

[Recycler]

the class is a trunk and you don't go back?

This. The jobs being a strict superset of the class, there is no reason to go back, but you can still switch to another class or job of a class.

[Arkine]

I guess they kept them because its complicated to remove them without reseting levels.

I believe a class's role should end at lv30 when you unlock get to unlock its job, and that job take over the class's place.

You start as a GLA > you play until Lv30 > you have to unlock a job to level any further > you unlock PLD > now you're a PLD.

You know, upgrading from a class to a job as a right of passage for your profession and that's that.

[Colvin]

You know, upgrading from a class to a job as a right of passage for your profession and that's that.

This is actually exactly how I see it, but they want to keep them (at least for now) I wonder what kinds of things they could go about doing to make Gladiator and Paladin TRUELY unique...?

[NoloeTazier]

We can sugar coat it all we want, Classes limit Jobs. We can argue all we want about Classes > Jobs in solo play (which isn't the case in 1) but really when you can switch jobs on a whim, why would anyone play Pugilist over Monk when they can just switch to WHM and buff themselves then switch to Monk and deal more damage.

The point I've made in the past is there's no way we can have a 2 Job from 1 Class system. Such as Gladiator -> Paladin Gladiator -> Dark Knight. Gladiator as a Class has abilities to help Paladin tank and is limited to Sword and Shield because of the Armory system. No one is going to want to play Dark Knight with a Sword and Shield and use Shield Bash and Sword combos. Sure 2.0 is going to change abilities and we have to wait and see these changes, but they haven't said they're going to change the current system of 15 abilities (which may be increased and will increase with level cap(s)) and 5 from your 2 sub-jobs.

With the Class and Armory system we're looking at a 1 Class to 1 Job system. The only one I can think of that works is Archer -> Bard Archer -> Ranger, but again with the limited armory system that would be 3 Bow types. But at least Ranger would have abilities that make it the classic Archer abilities which people want. (They also want Crossbows and Guns)

There's only 2 reasons we will use Classes in 2.0: 1) to unlock a Job 2) the Class only content they plan to implement. But if rewards are Class only, then I would be willing to bet that people would shun this content because they would never wear the gear and it would bog down their inventory. It'd be mostly vanity pieces.

If Classes got their abilities from the Job I could see how that system could work and you could have multiple jobs tied to 1 Class, but again who would want to play the Class? Classes restrict Jobs, Armory System restricts both. But with the current set up I just can't see a way to have multiple jobs tied to many of the classes and even if they are, they won't be that much different from the other job as the abilities are all shared. I didn't get to play FFXI for very long, but I believe the way the Job system works is just right.

We'll be getting redesigned abilities and maybe a few new abilities in 2.0 but I still feel the system is broken and limiting. Everytime we want to introduce a new Class/Job we have to 'invent' a new Weapon for the Armory system. A system I talked about before in game to a few of my friends was, why not just use the Job Stone system. Whenever you want to change Jobs, you change your Job Stone. This allows people to equip Sword/Shield to Warrior, Hand2Hand on WHM, etc. Course the only thing I could think of again was the FFXI skill system. People like to goof around and have freedom, so why not allow it, the armory system won't.

[Colvin]

We'll be getting redesigned abilities and maybe a few new abilities in 2.0 but I still feel the system is broken and limiting. Everytime we want to introduce a new Class/Job we have to 'invent' a new Weapon for the Armory system. A system I talked about before in game to a few of my friends was, why not just use the Job Stone system. Whenever you want to change Jobs, you change your Job Stone. This allows people to equip Sword/Shield to Warrior, Hand2Hand on WHM, etc. Course the only thing I could think of again was the FFXI skill system. People like to goof around and have freedom, so why not allow it, the armory system won't.

Goodness, I wasn't aware there was already a thread or I might have resurrected that. (I guess I should have thought about it).

Anyways, I think RDM from GLD, and DRK from WAR would make more sense. You just make 2-handed swords and scythes that are pretty much axes (from a database perspective) with different models. Not that I am defending the system... just saying.

For the RDM magic, you would have CNJ and THM as your minimum 15 classes so you have SOME magic, then add dots and -EN spells... you know... if they wanted to go the FFXI route.

I know some people that have pretty much built RDM using GLD and it really showed the diversity of GLD, but that brings in the point, if you can make RDM with GLD as it is now, why not just have RDM and get rid of GLD...?