Will Relics create the same problems that they did in FFXI?

[Yolteotl]

actually im not saying that I'm entitled to anything in particular. But if they haven't implemented anything to the level people are stating they want, there is a direct reason the company has chosen not to, and no I'm not gonna waste my time citing all the times SE has stated that the game is focused on casual play, because it has been stated repeatedly since before the 1st alpha had even been released over 2 1/2 years ago. whether Tanaka era or Yoshi-P, that's like having to cite examples of how the world isn't flat just because you haven't paid attention.

The point was, it's a game. And if you feel the dev's are completely ignoring a sector of the player base who want things even more 'challenging' by taking up severe amounts of time, you're probably right but doesn't mean they are going to stop ignoring it anytime soon as they still desire to build a strong casual base for ARR than to put in old-school oriented content that the casuals would never touch, and more resembles work than play.

TA as a leaderboard/achievement is irrelevant, just as the kill timers in FFXI were after an instance compared to the utility of TAs in the old format.

Your personal assumptions about myself are way misguided as well. I play the game consistently more than SE designed it for as well, but i don't complain about it. Instead i realize that people that over-play are an exception to the design concept (but maybe not an exception to the server community) and "just roll with it", still managing to enjoy the game by helping others instead of complaining, niche-forming, or needing something that makes me stand out that requires too much time from too many assets just to see any results for one person.

As long as content is updated consistently (as planned) and with relevance, the game can still offer plenty of material to keep players of any style occupied without putting in content that promotes Elitist egos by feeling superior to the have-nots. It's irrelevant to put in severe time-sinks if the delevopment team instead focuses on releasing relevant content. Severe time-sinks are put in to hope the players ignore the low pace at which new content is being put out.

And actually tying this in to the OP, alot of the reason why Relics stayed the top-tier weapon for 7 years in FFXI and other weapons were inferior for so long was BECAUSE of the fact that if someone DID obtain a Relic in FFXI it usually required around 2 years of a large number of assets to acquire at the time, so they didn't want to cheapen what took soo much 'time' but not necessarily challenging.

[NoctisUmbra]

actually im not saying that I'm entitled to anything in particular. But if they haven't implemented anything to the level people are stating they want, there is a direct reason the company has chosen not to, and no I'm not gonna waste my time citing all the times SE has stated that the game is focused on casual play, because it has been stated repeatedly since before the 1st alpha had even been released over 2 1/2 years ago. whether Tanaka era or Yoshi-P, that's like having to cite examples of how the world isn't flat just because you haven't paid attention.

Excuse me, but FFXIV post Yoshi-P is not held accountable by anything before that said by Tanaka. They even made a public announcement that the game was going to go by different standards and not be so casual oriented - this took place around the time they started making changes such as removing surplus/fatigue, adding gear options that are significantly tougher to get than at the time, and announcing such changes as not being able to start the game or progress in the story as a DoH/L and requiring a battle class to play the game.

If you pay any attention to the patterns in the progress of the game, and Yoshi-Ps design choices, he isn't focused on casual play. That is by no means a selling point for A Realm Reborn either. The idea he has in mind is casual accessibility - which is quite different than focus on casual play.

So, your arguments failed before they started.

PS: Casual friendly/accessibility does not mean making it so everyone can get everything. It goes without saying a casual player should not expect to achieve everything in an MMO. Not in a good one anyway.

[Yolteotl]

If you pay any attention to the patterns in the progress of the game, and Yoshi-Ps design choices, he isn't focused on casual play. That is by no means a selling point for A Realm Reborn either. The idea he has in mind is casual accessibility - which is quite different than focus on casual play.

So, your arguments failed before they started.

Inorite? Like the removal of TA loot mandates, the implementation of quest based leveling, the fact that you all are still searching for something that will make u feel Elite, etc...

[NoctisUmbra]

Inorite? Like the removal of TA loot mandates, the implementation of quest based leveling, the fact that you all are still searching for something that will make u feel Elite, etc...

/sigh... and this is where I conclude that you are not worth my time.

Yes. Feel free to take that as some elitist cliche response as I'm sure you will.

[TheFatHousecat]

Inorite? Like the removal of TA loot mandates, the implementation of quest based leveling, the fact that you all are still searching for something that will make u feel Elite, etc...

It's not so much that we're still searching, but that we're demanding. Once we've beaten something of a certain difficulty, we don't just lay back and resign to easier content for the rest of the game. If you're content with easy content/fights for the next several years of this MMO that's perfectly fine, but I'm not content with that. We ask for more challenges, and so far Yoshi & team have delivered every time.

[Yolteotl]

It's not so much that we're still searching, but that we're demanding. Once we've beaten something of a certain difficulty, we don't just lay back and resign to easier content for the rest of the game. If you're content with easy content/fights for the next several years of this MMO that's perfectly fine, but I'm not content with that. We ask for more challenges, and so far Yoshi & team have delivered every time.

I agree with that, it's just I do not agree with people thinking the FFXI Relic system is a good idea for FFXIV. Which is the predominant example that people desire in the thread. It's one thing to continue the progressive difficulties, its another to want something that took so long for 1 person to get but 30 people to assist that by the time ur looking at the 4th person ur looking at a 2 year waiting period (aka ~$288 less u risk losing ur points). THAT kind of 'Content' is nothing more than a time sink. There were only 2 steps of a FFXI Relic that were challenigng the Necropsyche and the Testament, but it took the participation of all those people all those years just to advance so few. That "Content' is nothing more than Elitism at it's ugliest and not content that this game has ever acted like was to be considered. It's one thing to put in Content that most groups will struggle at, another to put in Content that your own group's members will not be able to obtain the reward EVER even though your group has the skill to do it well.

Also, the use of 'Hardcore' by Yoshi-P is not a position against my argument, ur melding his words to meet ur opinion. At the time Yoshi-P made that statement there was also a clear definition of what they meant at that same time by 'Hardcore' or 'Casual'. The only difference between the two in actual context to what he was saying was Hardcore = people who log-in everyday for a relevant amount of time and Casual = people who only log-in 3 or less days a week for a relevant amnount of time.

[dbrewer225]

YOLTEOTL U HAVE MADE TOO MUCH SENSE IN THAT STATEMENT U BETTER BE CAREFUL, PEOPLE WHO ARE ELITIST ARE GONNA SAY U JUST MAD CAUSE U DIDNT GET RELIC.

[TheFatHousecat]

I'm not gonna waste my time citing all the times SE has stated that the game is focused on casual play, because it has been stated repeatedly since before the 1st alpha had even been released over 2 1/2 years ago.

Oh, you're talking about Tanaka, then. Well, you know, back then the game was also advertised as being designed around play casual enough that players could complete the entire storyline as a DoH/L. Obviously, things have changed, and there's a new producer in charge.

Matching Casual and Heavy Players

Online games have a hierarchy to them, or at least that’s what I like to call it. It’s often described using a pyramid, the width of the pyramid being representative of the number of players. At the peak are the hard-cores—the minority of players who completely immerse themselves in the game, playing day and night and often forgetting their biological imperatives. As you work your way down the pyramid, players become increasingly casual. It bears mentioning that this model illustrates the quantity of players only, not quality.

In the first generation of MMORPGs, the pyramids were skinny and tall. In the current generation, while I think the peak should still stay way up there, the slopes projecting down from it should be less extreme. What I want to make is a theme park where both casuals and hard-cores can exist and play together. That’s the minimum requirement I think a modern MMORPG should fulfill.

I hope you heavy gamers out there will hurry to clear the game’s latest contents. I hope you beat Ifrit before anyone else and get those new weapons. I hope other players will see you and want to do the same. I hope you try and clear the beastman strongholds with less than the maximum number of players. And I hope you post on the forums about all your accomplishments.

I hope you more casual players will enjoy traveling around Eorzea by chocobo and airship with your in-game and real-life friends while working your way up to end-game content like the Ifrit fight. By then, the battle strats will be worked out, and you’ll be able to fight at your own pace. There’s no need to rush. Both play styles have their place. Should the need arise, we’ll look into adjusting the level of difficulty, or introducing a system that lets you set it yourself.

For any given content, the difference in the amount of time players need to figure it out and get the loot will unavoidably vary.

Hard-core gamers are hard-core gamers because they are always leading the charge. Following close behind their trailblazing are the “mid-cores.” And then there’s the casual gamers making progress at their own pace.

To realize the ideal we have in place, we need a powerful matching system capable of connecting all of these players, whatever their rates of progression might be. We plan to study what other MMORPGs have achieved here, and make it one of our main tasks as we move forward, together with add-ons and the UI.

Speaking of the UI, we are well aware that there are still difficulties with the mouse/keyboard interface. I’m a mouse/keyboard man myself, so believe me when I say I plan to continue making both little and big improvements with global standards in mind.

The ideal we’ve put in place may be a bit up there, but we have every intention of achieving it, and will do everything in our power to do so.

The point was, it's a game. And if you feel the dev's are completely ignoring a sector of the player base who want things even more challenging, you're probably right but doesn't mean they are going to stop ignoring it anytime soon as they still desire to build a strong casual base for ARR than to put in old-school oriented content that the casuals would never touch.

But they aren't ignoring the hardcore players. The slow, upward slope of difficulty from Ifrit (Hard) to Rivenroad (Hard) is evidence that they care and they're listening. As broken as 1.0's engine is, the battle designer still tried to challenge himself to release content that was ever harder (and even posted to his defeat when it was cleared sooner than he thought).

My point is, they have to cater to both sides. They can't just release content too hard for 80% of the playerbase to complete or there simply won't be enough subscriptions to stay afloat; yet they also can't just make the game faceroll easy, lest the game become devoid of any real sense of accomplishment.

I see people who consider themselves hardcore players posting on the forums asking for equal parts of difficulty; we ask for content that's really fucking hard, that forces us to pull longer nights, and tests our strategy-forming abilities, but we also acknowledge that the game needs to have low level dungeons/drops/nms for casual players, and that's fine. I only ever see casual players posting threads whining and begging for primal weapons/DL/relic/White Ravens/etc to be handed to them, and demanding that the game cater to their needs and only their needs, whilst they mock hardcore players as sadists with no lives who overestimate their accomplishments.