Tonberry, as a playable race.

[RoxyLalonde]

Guess I will have to be a bit more serious about my explanation. Seeing as it's now under scrutinization.
Immersion
A tonberry playable race would be a serious detriment to the current and proposed future state of immersion into the game. Tonberry's have always been a minimally verbal race if not completely non verbal in some games. They have almost always been an antagonist to all living things as well. Seeing as they simply hunt people down and kill them.
13-2 allows you to capture monsters and convert them to your side but they are converted there is no inherent urge in the tonberry's created nature to want to assist people. Tonberry's main action and goal seems to be to stab things and watch them die while moving incredibly slow. Thusly in FFXIV the tonberry would require a transformation into a human like creature, because they are removing non-humanoid features from the races. It would also require some lore to turn it INTO this humanoid creature... but not only that it would also by virtue require this method to give them enough time to build a city and society with basic principles and development of battle arts and magic either through cultural diffusion from the primary 5 races or by self discovery. After that, it would require the tonberry(humanoid) race to then develop and foster relations with said primary 5 races as to allow them to freely live breathe and have equal rights in these races cities, while not negating the fact that the 5 races are also highly bigoted and racist against anything besides cat girls (who do in their defense have high verbal skills as well as mostly humanoid forms) As seen in the case of the beastmen tribes, Moogle's Sylphs Amal Ixal Cobal all are fairly verbal but lack distinctly humanoid features to the taste of Eorzean's. So much so that they aren't even considered to be worthy of burial or mercy.
Thusly the implementation of a tonberry race would be highly difficult and they would be an undercast and mistreated segment of the Eorzean population that would be trash to them.
Thusly, if tonberry's suddenly popped up it would annoy everyone due to the fact it would break highly from the common characteristics this game has been appreciated for.
That is why, I said they would do well as a summon, or a lesser beastman tribe (like the sylphs or moogles who aren't hated but still treated with odd regard.) I hope you enjoy my elaboration on my statement since you seemed to be requesting clarification.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Guess I will have to be a bit more serious about my explanation. Seeing as it's now under scrutinization.
Immersion
A tonberry playable race would be a serious detriment to the current and proposed future state of immersion into the game. Tonberry's have always been a minimally verbal race if not completely non verbal in some games. They have almost always been an antagonist to all living things as well. Seeing as they simply hunt people down and kill them.
13-2 allows you to capture monsters and convert them to your side but they are converted there is no inherent urge in the tonberry's created nature to want to assist people. Tonberry's main action and goal seems to be to stab things and watch them die while moving incredibly slow. Thusly in FFXIV the tonberry would require a transformation into a human like creature, because they are removing non-humanoid features from the races. It would also require some lore to turn it INTO this humanoid creature... but not only that it would also by virtue require this method to give them enough time to build a city and society with basic principles and development of battle arts and magic either through cultural diffusion from the primary 5 races or by self discovery. After that, it would require the tonberry(humanoid) race to then develop and foster relations with said primary 5 races as to allow them to freely live breathe and have equal rights in these races cities, while not negating the fact that the 5 races are also highly bigoted and racist against anything besides cat girls (who do in their defense have high verbal skills as well as mostly humanoid forms) As seen in the case of the beastmen tribes, Moogle's Sylphs Amal Ixal Cobal all are fairly verbal but lack distinctly humanoid features to the taste of Eorzean's. So much so that they aren't even considered to be worthy of burial or mercy.
Thusly the implementation of a tonberry race would be highly difficult and they would be an undercast and mistreated segment of the Eorzean population that would be trash to them.
Thusly, if tonberry's suddenly popped up it would annoy everyone due to the fact it would break highly from the common characteristics this game has been appreciated for.
That is why, I said they would do well as a summon, or a lesser beastman tribe (like the sylphs or moogles who aren't hated but still treated with odd regard.) I hope you enjoy my elaboration on my statement since you seemed to be requesting clarification.

Chocobo Black Mages, they have no verbal understandable language, yet they are you ally and can cast spells. So Why couldn't I be a tonberry if I wanted to be?

As far as beastmen go, you have the mixture of good and evil. Hence why you see some beastmen in the city. So why can't there be good tonberries?

Why would you need to make them more humanoid, you clearly see what jobs the moogles are by the hats they wear. It would just be full sets of armor instead of a helmet. Hell you could just make it helmets from tonberry and the armor would always be the signature cloaks, I wouldn't care.

[Inaaca]

Chocobo Black Mages, they have no verbal understandable language, yet they are you ally and can cast spells. So Why couldn't I be a tonberry if I wanted to be?

His point was that players talk, which sort of conflicts with Tonberrys being a perpetually silent creature. Chocobos aren't player controlled (at least not in the sense that it's supposed to be "you") so it doesn't really apply here.

[Jinrya-Geki]

His point was that players talk, which sort of conflicts with Tonberrys being a perpetually silent creature. Chocobos aren't player controlled (at least not in the sense that it's supposed to be "you") so it doesn't really apply here.

Chocobos have been controlable characters though, Final Fantasy Tatics.

[Inaaca]

Chocobos have been controlable characters though, Final Fantasy Tatics.

You're missing the point. It isn't about whether or not something it's controllable, it's about whether or not it's capable of speaking.

Controlling a chocobo in a single player game is irrelevant. The chocobo won't speak, and as a player in a single player game there are no other players to talk to.

This dynamic changes in an MMO. Whatever you're controlling that represents you as a player will be seen as the one talking whenever you type something in the chat log. Chocobos are pets in FFXIV, and they don't represent the player speaking.

[Shougun]

You're missing the point. It isn't about whether or not something it's controllable, it's about whether or not it's capable of speaking.

Controlling a chocobo in a single player game is irrelevant. The chocobo won't speak, and as a player in a single player game there are no other players to talk to.

This dynamic changes in an MMO. Whatever you're controlling that represents you as a player will be seen as the one talking whenever you type something in the chat log. Chocobos are pets in FFXIV, and they don't represent the player speaking.

chocobos talk >.>

Kweeeeeh!! means the treasure is pretty close.

[Matsume]

Guess I will have to be a bit more serious about my explanation. Seeing as it's now under scrutinization.

Immersion
A tonberry playable race would be a serious detriment to the current and proposed future state of immersion into the game.

Tonberry's have always been a minimally verbal race if not completely non verbal in some games.

They have almost always been an antagonist to all living things as well. Seeing as they simply hunt people down and kill them.

13-2 allows you to capture monsters and convert them to your side but they are converted there is no inherent urge in the tonberry's created nature to want to assist people. Tonberry's main action and goal seems to be to stab things and watch them die while moving incredibly slow.

Thusly in FFXIV the tonberry would require a transformation into a human like creature, because they are removing non-humanoid features from the races.

It would also require some lore to turn it INTO this humanoid creature... but not only that it would also by virtue require this method to give them enough time to build a city and society with basic principles and development of battle arts and magic either through cultural diffusion from the primary 5 races or by self discovery.

After that, it would require the tonberry(humanoid) race to then develop and foster relations with said primary 5 races as to allow them to freely live breathe and have equal rights in these races cities, while not negating the fact that the 5 races are also highly bigoted and racist against anything besides cat girls (who do in their defense have high verbal skills as well as mostly humanoid forms)

As seen in the case of the beastmen tribes, Moogle's Sylphs Amal Ixal Cobal all are fairly verbal but lack distinctly humanoid features to the taste of Eorzean's. So much so that they aren't even considered to be worthy of burial or mercy.

Thusly the implementation of a tonberry race would be highly difficult and they would be an undercast and mistreated segment of the Eorzean population that would be trash to them.

Thusly, if tonberry's suddenly popped up it would annoy everyone due to the fact it would break highly from the common characteristics this game has been appreciated for.

That is why, I said they would do well as a summon, or a lesser beastman tribe (like the sylphs or moogles who aren't hated but still treated with odd regard.) I hope you enjoy my elaboration on my statement since you seemed to be requesting clarification.

Okay, so I spaced out your wall of text for the sake of clarification and have encountered a number of argumentative errors in the way you try to build your arguments against Tonberries as a playable race

So I'm going to chop it up and try and make sense of it all while addressing each of your concerns along the way by bringing up solutions to each problem:

Thesis:

A tonberry playable race would be a serious detriment to the current and proposed future state of immersion into the game.

1st Argument: Lack of Language

Tonberry's have always been a minimally verbal race if not completely non verbal in some games.

As seen in the case of the beastmen tribes, Moogle's Sylphs Amal Ixal Cobal all are fairly verbal but lack distinctly humanoid features to the taste of Eorzean's. So much so that they aren't even considered to be worthy of burial or mercy.

Tonberries are silent, but that does not mean they are incapable of a high form of intelligence. I will even go as far to say that, given the ability to speak, silence can be considered the most intelligent route to take. It may just be that Tonberries are so much more intelligent than the other Eorzean races that they prefer not to communicate with them let alone meddle in their petty trifles...

2nd Argument: Foe not Friend

They have almost always been an antagonist to all living things as well.

13-2 allows you to capture monsters and convert them to your side but they are converted there is no inherent urge in the tonberry's created nature to want to assist people. Tonberry's main action and goal seems to be to stab things and watch them die while moving incredibly slow.

Perhaps the Tonberry race are the keeper of last magical arts and arcane knowledge capable of great power for both life and destruction. Maybe that the Tonberry race had been persecuted in a distant past era for any number of reasons and so have grown to fear the other races and spite them. They might just be aggressive out of fear for past harm inflicted upon them by our ancestors' ancestors and are willing to sacrifice themselves if it means keeping their civilization a secret and inaccessible to outsiders privy to prey on the slow...

3rd Argument: Lack of Humanity

Tonberry would require a transformation into a human like creature, because they are removing non-humanoid features from the races.

it would require the tonberry(humanoid) race to then develop and foster relations with said primary 5 races as to allow them to freely live breathe and have equal rights in these races cities, while not negating the fact that the 5 races are also highly bigoted and racist against anything besides cat girls (who do in their defense have high verbal skills as well as mostly humanoid forms)

Tonberries are humanoid creatures as is. They have the sensory organs of most animals including but not limited to eyes, ears, noses, mouths, and hands with opposable thumbs. So there would be no need to further humanize them. Besides, I've never seen an official post claiming that non humanoid features are to be eliminated

4th Argument: Lack of Lore

It would also require some lore to turn it INTO this humanoid creature.

.. but not only that it would also by virtue require this method to give them enough time to build a city and society with basic principles and development of battle arts and magic either through cultural diffusion from the primary 5 races or by self discovery.

Ultimately it comes down to developing a lore that gives suitable and just reason to the playability of that race.

There is no reason why the Tonberry race could not have retreated to a secluded part of the land and locked themselves away from contact with other civilizations, all the while developing a superior form of intelligence and a highly complex society.

They could even be the ambassadors of Arcanists, despite the guild already being in Uldah. However SE could claim the reason that the Arcanist guild has heretofore been inaccessible is that there were no Tonberries to profess the ancient arts.

Or maybe Tonberry will be the ones to teach us how to capture and summon the primals. I think that any race with such knowledge and ability would quickly be coveted and well treated by the societies you depict as racist and bigoted in hopes of learning how to gain such power.

Conclusion:

Thusly the implementation of a tonberry race would be highly difficult and they would be an undercast and mistreated segment of the Eorzean population that would be trash to them.

If tonberry's suddenly popped up it would annoy everyone due to the fact it would break highly from the common characteristics this game has been appreciated for.

I don't think your Arguments defend your conclusion in any cohesive way, shape or form. Your only valid claim is that there is a lack of lore to enlighten the mysteries of the Toberry race and give reason enough to make them a playable race.

That in itself is the solution: simply provide a rich background such as my above mentioned solutions and I am sure they would be accepted in Eorzean society. After all we will be entering the 7th umbral era, a time of post apocalyptic devastation in which all tribes must put their differences aside and band together for survival. What better timing?

TLDR: If Qiqirin get to be seriously considered, then it would only be fair that Tonberry too.

[Ryans]

Okay, so I spaced out your wall of text for the sake of clarification and have encountered a number of argumentative errors in the way you try to build your arguments against Tonberries as a playable race

So I'm going to chop it up and try and make sense of it all while addressing each of your concerns along the way by bringing up solutions to each problem:

Thesis:


1st Argument: Lack of Language



Tonberries are silent, but that does not mean they are incapable of a high form of intelligence. I will even go as far to say that, given the ability to speak, silence can be considered the most intelligent route to take. It may just be that Tonberries are so much more intelligent than the other Eorzean races that they prefer not to communicate with them let alone meddle in their petty trifles...

Isn't one of the side effects of the echo the ability to understand every language because instead of hearing the words, we hear what the individual is trying to portray. Its a sort of mind reading in that we feel what they are saying instead of hearing it. Could be applied to Tonberries in that their silence is actually a form of communication that we can pick up on.

Not that I think Tonberries should be playable, just an explanation to counter some peoples arguments.

As for the lore behind why they would be suddenly accepted as equals with the 5 races could that a sect of their tribe emerged and helped the city-states recover after the Dalamud incident. Their help over the 5 year lapse could have earned them the respect of the other races. But this could be applied to any new race added.

[Matsume]

Isn't one of the side effects of the echo the ability to understand every language because instead of hearing the words, we hear what the individual is trying to portray. Its a sort of mind reading in that we feel what they are saying instead of hearing it. Could be applied to Tonberries in that their silence is actually a form of communication that we can pick up on.

Not that I think Tonberries should be playable, just an explanation to counter some peoples arguments.

As for the lore behind why they would be suddenly accepted as equals with the 5 races could that a sect of their tribe emerged and helped the city-states recover after the Dalamud incident. Their help over the 5 year lapse could have earned them the respect of the other races. But this could be applied to any new race added.

All the more reason.

And yes it could be applied to any race indifferent of Tonberry.

As for the echo I am not sure if it allows one to understand all languages or simply the language of the moogles.