What XIV can take from XI to make it better

[Ayla]

MMO’s became all theme parks (which is fine I suppose), but the theme parks got a LOT simpler.

1. classes have been pigeon holed heavily, many MMO’s launch with a class needing a single stat – just get more better willpower and U2WIN!
2. meaningful crowd control and pulling ability have been tossed out the window in favor of easily spaced out, non-interlaced groups of “just the right size” content
3. shared dungeons gave way to instanced dungeons in part to improve the number of things you could do in an encounter, but also to avoid training and camping
4. loot got mind numbingly boring. Neat effects gave way to linear gearing and BoP everything. In a world where QL is all that matters, gear choices are a simple greater than, less than check. Thinking, who needs that.
5. you can equip every single ability you ever learn, even the lower tier versions in some games. This reaches it’s zenith in EQ2 where you need 8 skill bars (or three keyboards I guess) to play the game (some hyperbole intended). Back in EQ1, casters had to pick which 9 spells they wandered around with – choice mattered. Nowadays? Just click whichever ability is lit up, avoid the ones that are grey. Some classes require more thought than others, many play perfectly well on auto-pilot.
6. games are built to reach max level in a month. The journey doesn’t matter, only end-game does.
7. however, the game design now focuses on solo to max level and then group up to play end game. In the process of doing the first, you have built no community hooks to supplement the second.

The end result is that games are very streamlined in order to “keep subscribers,” but paradoxically produce subscribers that have no social hooks into the game and thus next to no switching costs to jump to another game.

I can't say any better, what this guy is writing over there: Link.

[Zephir]

Zone division.
Low level area near starting city and higher areas more far and difficult to reach.

Fighting system
More possibility to chat with other people during fight

Party based exp earning.

More stritch class without possibility to do all-aspect job (main/sub stop)

No action bar that is kind of abused right now.

[Elexia]

It's taking plenty of ideas from other games, though. It doesn't hurt to take more from it's predecessor. FFXII is the wonderful game it was because it was heavily influenced by FFXI. But it left out a lot of the bad parts of XI. I don't see why XIV can't do the same. People just like suggesting bad ideas from XI for the most part, like gear swap.

No, it's more like any ideas from FFXI is seen as "bad ideas" by the usual people. "They should take the assault system and make a few changes here and there"..."Nope! BAD IDEA GO BACK TO FFXI!" ... "Ok they should take Nyzul Isle's style for Crystal Tower since we know it's being released in parts"..."Go back to FFXI if you want Nyzul isle" and so on.

People proven, as Andrien said, that it's perfectly ok to take ideas let alone directly copy other MMOs as long as it's not XI. This is the only MMO community that'd oppose a company learning from or building off of one of their own MMOs.

[Zantetsuken]

No, it's more like any ideas from FFXI is seen as "bad ideas" by the usual people. "They should take the assault system and make a few changes here and there"..."Nope! BAD IDEA GO BACK TO FFXI!" ... "Ok they should take Nyzul Isle's style for Crystal Tower since we know it's being released in parts"..."Go back to FFXI if you want Nyzul isle" and so on.

People proven, as Andrien said, that it's perfectly ok to take ideas let alone directly copy other MMOs as long as it's not XI. This is the only MMO community that'd oppose a company learning from or building off of one of their own MMOs.

I can see how one might think that this forum is full of anti-FFXI players, but I don't think that's the case.

Much of the 'FFXI hate' might just be former FFXI players that just don't want certain aspects of the game brought into this one - for one reason or another.

For example, I've posted opposition to bringing back Maat/Sky/Galka Tails/etc. Not because I hated them, but because they belong in FFXI, not this game.

At a cursory glance, people might look at those posts and think "Here's another FFXI hater", but FFXI is the best MMO I've played and I spent 8 years with it.

I'd like to think that most of the posts that seem to hate FFXI are actually just against specific ideas rather than the game itself.

My guess is that the true anti-FFXI people are a very small (yet somewhat vocal) minority.

[Biggs]

I said I would give Yoshi a chance but.. I will not put up quest grind or dungeon grinding for exp. I dont like to quest grind nor do I want to dungeon grind for exp, and I am not the only one who dosent want to do it that way. Once you lose mid-core and hardcore players thats it for this game. Maybe they are not the majority but they are the ones who keep the games going in the long term, so that the casuals can come and go as they please. Its the steady income that will help keep XIV going not the short term casuals who come and go like water. A game needs a healthy population of every type of player base, but when you lose too many from 1-2 types of player bases that isnt good at all. In order for Yoshi to keep all types of players he needs to cater to all groups. Yoshi has a tall order so he needs to learn how to balance it for everyone as well as put it into play. Now I am very hard on my opinions of SE and thats because I hold them to a higher standard based of their past Final Fantasy Series. What they are currently doing is in no way their best work and can be much better than it is.

No argument from me about the lower standards, although I don't think 2.0 will survive if it only manages to keep the number of hardcore gamers 1.0 has now. (although I think you are pretty much saying the same thing) As to grinding, it sounded to me like they are focusing on trying to combine it with questing. Sort of specualtion here but they have mentioned leveled dungeons in 2.0, meaning you get a quest to go to the level 40 dungeon with your party, where you then kill mobs grind style to level. While I prefer grinding as well, I think this sort of system would be ok. The biggest problem for me with that example is that it will prob be instanced, in which case you dont get the awesomeness that comes with seeing others ride by on chocobos, or seeing others in trouble and coming to help, ect. I feel like SE is simplifying many things in 2.0 to make certain things easier (that many of us have hated for years) but in the process they are killing the sense of community and open worldness that made us start playing these games in the first place.

[Elexia]

My guess is that the true anti-FFXI people are a very small (yet somewhat vocal) minority.

Which is sadly the group that gets heard the most.

[Andrien]

No, it's more like any ideas from FFXI is seen as "bad ideas" by the usual people. "They should take the assault system and make a few changes here and there"..."Nope! BAD IDEA GO BACK TO FFXI!" ... "Ok they should take Nyzul Isle's style for Crystal Tower since we know it's being released in parts"..."Go back to FFXI if you want Nyzul isle" and so on.

People proven, as Andrien said, that it's perfectly ok to take ideas let alone directly copy other MMOs as long as it's not XI. This is the only MMO community that'd oppose a company learning from or building off of one of their own MMOs.

Holy shit when did I say that? Seriously... Find it.

What I essentially said was that it is okay to take ideas that work from other mmorpg's. That is including ffxi.

Please find and prove that I said "directly copy other MMOs as long as it's not XI"

Please stop making shit up. Just stop.


I can say you pro-ffxi'ers want to directly copy what didn't work in ffxi, and excluding what does work in others.. That what it looks like to me.

[syntaxlies]

Zone division.
Low level area near starting city and higher areas more far and difficult to reach.
2.0 will have this

Fighting system
More possibility to chat with other people during fight
basically you want slower ff11 style combat, no thank you
Party based exp earning.
party xp is the best xp you can get already

More stritch class without possibility to do all-aspect job (main/sub stop)
This was already done by only allowing jobs 2 subs
No action bar that is kind of abused right now.
tab menu combat optimized for controllers, no thank you

i thought the thread was things to make ffxiv better...

[Elexia]

i thought the thread was things to make ffxiv better...

You're right, they should tell the PS3 users to not use the controller that came with their console.

[syntaxlies]

You're right, they should tell the PS3 users to not use the controller that came with their console.

sounds fine to me, the game will always be better if it doesn't cater to consoles. I really don't care if they make ps3 only servers.