SE stop doing the "norm"

[Jynx]

You have no idea what content is.

Can't say I agree with you but whatever. I had tons to do by myself in XI when my friends were not online from NA launch until I left the game seven years later. Considering I enjoyed solo play pretty heavilly, I say that speaks for itself.

But seriously Firon if you insist on compressing my list please list me out all the "Group" content. I'll be sure to compress it all under "Battle" But you know it's 97% of the game content I'm sure you will come up with something.

[drivendawn]

If it's not about fan service, this game is a complete joke.

WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT CRYSTAL TOWER?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT GOLDEN SAUCER?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT MAGITEK?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT A CARD GAME?
Pretty sure they have other things that they are going to implement from past FF.

Which makes me wonder, why didn't they fan service their core mmo players, *cough* ffxi *cough*

Hmm all this sounds familiar. HEY YOSHI, THOSE WORKED GREAT IN THE PAST, BUT LEAVE THE PAST IN THE PAST, STOP THE NOSTALGIA! PEOPLE HERE DON'T WANT THAT! Rokiens post in fan service vs originality.

[Rokien]

If it's not about fan service, this game is a complete joke.

WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT CRYSTAL TOWER?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT GOLDEN SAUCER?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT MAGITEK?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT A CARD GAME?
Pretty sure they have other things that they are going to implement from past FF.

Which makes me wonder, why didn't they fan service their core mmo players, *cough* ffxi *cough*

Hmm all this sounds familiar. HEY YOSHI, THOSE WORKED GREAT IN THE PAST, BUT LEAVE THE PAST IN THE PAST, STOP THE NOSTALGIA! PEOPLE HERE DON'T WANT THAT! Rokiens post in fan service vs originality.

You do know, you did not quote me, please fix that. I also have no idea why you posted that in here, please expand on why you plagiarized me.

[Starlord]

WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT CRYSTAL TOWER?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT GOLDEN SAUCER?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT MAGITEK?
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY IMPLEMENT A CARD GAME?

You know what? I'm happy all of those are coming into FFXIV ARR. So "WHY THE HELL NOT?"

[drivendawn]

Please show me my stupid statements, I'll gladly defend them.

And seriously? I'm all for fan service what the hell are you talking about.... gosh please show me where I was against it.

Also really? That's the best argument you have "HEY LET ME TYPE SOMETHING THIS IS CONTENT HURP DURP" Seriously? You are going deeper and deeper, also making yourself look worse.

You said this earlyer.

[Rokien]

You know what? I'm happy all of those are coming into FFXIV ARR. So "WHY THE HELL NOT?"

I'm happy as well, soo I don't see your point?

[Rokien]

You said this earlyer.

I was responding to this statement right here that was stupid
"It's not about fan service. Its about meeting a standard and playing it safe"
So I was just naming some of the fan service they had.

[Starlord]

I'm happy as well, soo I don't see your point?

This thread is my point. "this game is a complete joke." Yep you should see me laughing! :P

[Abriael]

Basically, you are saying they have to dumb the game down so it isn't too hard. They might have to adjust the difficulty of each factor, but it doesn't mean action games have to become less complex because of that. If you have 3 factors@1/3 each and add a fourth, setting each@1/4, you still get the 1.0

It means exactly that. and your equation demonstrates it. If you have to lower 1/3 to 1/4, that factor is indeed lowered.

The point where we disagree is that you are saying there are no tactics involved in action combat, which is frankly pretty silly. You can't just stand there and spam punches in a well implemented system. If you can, then the system is flawed and needs adjustment.

Sorry, but clear cut strawman arguments don't really help your case. No one here said that there are no tactics involved in action combat. Fact is that action combat-based MMORPGs have to be less tactics/group synergies-based, to avoid overwhelming players making them less accessible and to avoid overwhelming the servers.

Big difference in the bolded parts.

The sun rising in the east is a fact. Some guy on the net claiming something is impossible is an opinion. For some reason you seem to be thinking your opinion is a fact. I'm sorry, you are mistaken.

Some guy talks with MMO developers between a weekly and a daily base, when he doesn't inverview them. TERA's devs included. He's quite aware of the compromises they had to do in order to make the server structure what it is.

I'm quite sure they know what they're saying for a fact.

What is your opinion based on again?

Obviously, WoW, being The Holy Grail of MMOs, is successful. Or so people say. It doesn't change the fact nearly every game that tried the same system didn't last long.

Like Final Fantasy XI? Or like every long lasting MMORPG we have on the market?

Initial hype wearing off, normal phenomenon. The question is, how far this is going to continue? Will the servers become empty? How many will have to close? When? Only time will tell.

One thing is for sure. It's no revolution, and it won't generate any massive audience looking at the results we had so far.

To be completely honest most of its appeal on its current userbase is based on the art style, not on its combat.

I didn't say targeting is the only factor defining a MMO. It's one of major defining ones though.

But it's really not. The difference is in a single keypress, and considering that hitboxes in action-based mmorpg are overly large, there really isn't much difference besides a mere functional one that influences the fun factor very relatively.

If you don't want to see them as genres, see them as sub-genres, as they're both MMOs, just with different battle systems. You're starting to nitpick at this point though.

Just pointing out just how weak and incredibly subjective your arguments are.

You missed the point of the thread then. The "norm" the thread is referring to is not the norm in handling an unsuccessful MMO, but the norm of features in a MMO. Basically, the OP wants the SE to do something original again. Whether it's a good idea or not, considering what their last attempt at originality brought us, is another thing altogether.

Fact is that the definition the OP uses of "the norm" is fallacious to begin with, and shows that he has no idea of what he's talking about, but his contribution to the whole thread pretty much demonstrates that in itself.

His idea of "the norm" is limited to very few factors he cares about (he basically uses "the norm" as a derogatory definition to paint what he doesn't like in a negative light, regardless of it being the norm or not), while there are a crapton of factors that define and distingush a MMORPG from "The norm", including ARR.

You could actually easily define action-based MMOs as "the norm", for instance, as action games are a lot more widespread nowadays than games that require more reasoning and have a slower pace.

There has to be some progress for it to be called progress, originality and new ideas are part of it when done right. Yes, being original for it's own sake is a bad idea, that doesn't mean everyone should just hold unto safe ideas and recycle them over and over again.

There are plenty areas where smaller innovations can bring a much larger contribution to the fun factor than radical innovations that attempt to fix what isn't wrong. A good example are TSW's investigative quests.

Often going back to past standards pushed away by "innovation" is actually a much better choice than innovating.

Good game design isn't based on time, past, future, innovation or regression, but simply on what is fun and what isn't.

An argument based on not doing "The norm" because someone thinks that an absolutely flawed statistical pool (the commenters on a forum) represents in any way what MMORPG players want is ridiculous. If "the norm" is fun, welcome to "the norm".

[Rokien]

This thread is my point. "this game is a complete joke." Yep you should see me laughing! :P

Again you are trying to hard to make something that is nothing.....