Small Rant on Seal Rolls in Hamlet parties

[Wynn]

I'm just shaking my head in disbelief at this point, but if that's what makes you happy you're more than welcome to play the game like that. I'm just trying to warn you that your idea of loot morality is out of the norm here and you're only going to make life harder for yourself if you let things like this impact you so much.

What I find hard to believe is that you would be ok with this if you were in my position and somebody did this to you.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would be ok with that or think it was commendable they did so unless they were on the benefiting end, which is also detestable in and of itself in my opinion.

I'm glad I'm not that kind of person. And if I am the minority as you say then I'm happy to be so. The majority of a group can feel strongly one way about something and still be wrong. History is littered with such things so that doesn't really bother me one way or the other.

However, I'll correct your analogy to make it more in line with what actually happened. 8 people sat down to bid on a cake and a pie. One person changed their mind and said they wanted the cake instead. They won the bid for the entire cake and then gave it to one of the three original people bidding on the cake. Three people actually wanted the cake, but one of them got two chances to acquire it and won as a result.

Interesting you chose cake in your analogy. Brings the phrase "let them eat cake" to mind. Strikingly appropriate.

[Forerunner]

Seals is srs bisness.

[Meatdawg]

What I find hard to believe is that you would be ok with this if you were in my position and somebody did this to you.

He passed his loot (that he won) to a friend. He didn't kill your cat..... Your morality is laughable.

So lets blacklist him and never group with them again because you misunderstood his intentions.

It takes 8 people to run a hamlet. Not 7. Not 4. Those other 4 people that didn't roll on the seal... are they there for shits and giggles? What happens when someone really does ninja loot from you? If you are spamming refresh to debate this ridiculous topic to death what will happen when you really are wronged in game?

In poker when you have a bad beat you move on. You need a short memory. In FF when you have a bad beat (your perception) you run the forums and QQ about it and look for justification.

You claim in every other post you don't care yet quote and reply to every thread that says your point of view is flawed.

Sounds to me like your just butt hurt you have to run hamlet again.

[Raikki]

It's not "the entire cake", that's just it. The way your hamlet PUG works, you're being rewarded for your effort each run by receiving an agreed upon probability of winning a seal. Your reward isn't the seal itself, but the roll for it. By rolling on that seal in that last run, you received the reward you requested: a chance at the seal at a probability you agreed to.

[Wynn]

He passed his loot (that he won) to a friend. He didn't kill your cat..... Your morality is laughable.

So lets blacklist him and never group with them again because you misunderstood his intentions.

It takes 8 people to run a hamlet. Not 7. Not 4. Those other 4 people that didn't roll on the seal... are they there for shits and giggles? What happens when someone really does ninja loot from you? If you are spamming refresh to debate this ridoucls topic to death what will happen when you really are wronged in game?

In poker when you have a bad beat you move on. You need a short memory. In FF when you have a bad beat (your perception) you run the forums and QQ about it and look for justification.

You claim in every other post you don't care yet quote and reply to every thread that says your point of view is flawed.

Sounds to me like your just butt hurt you have to run hamlet again.

Why shouldn't I reply to posts directed at me? This is a discussion forum is it not?

You know you can talk about things, even debate them, and not be emotionally invested in them. Even in a forum.

Shocking concept, I know.

[Wynn]

It's not "the entire cake", that's just it. The way your hamlet PUG works, you're being rewarded for your effort each run by receiving an agreed upon probability of winning a seal. Your reward isn't the seal itself, but the roll for it. By rolling on that seal in that last run, you received the reward you requested: a chance at the seal at a probability you agreed to.

I disagree, unless you can also cut that seal into 8 pieces.

It also was not a probability I agreed to. Nobody said "hey guys, I'm changing what I want to seal even though I don't need it so that if I win the seal I'm going to give it to this guy."

1/8 does not equal 1/4. And technically, since other people were not bidding on seals at all the actual fractions are 1/3 does not equal 1/2 of lots.

[Rosalie]

I'll just come out and say that I've been on both ends of this situation; and the only advice I can offer to anyone joining a group for hamlet is ASK MORE QUESTIONS. Having put out the gil/time/effort to provision and gather people together, the party leader gets to set whatever rules they want. If you don't like the rules they set, or if they try to squirrel away from your questions, it's just best to walk away beforehand and not waste anyone's time with bickering after the fact. No one should fault you if you just say "I don't agree with your lotting rules, so thanks for your time but I can't go with you," before the party departs.

As for party leaders, nothing is wrong with full disclosure. It avoids a LOT of drama. I've had to deal with people angry with me simply because I had to ask them to leave to allow another static member in, and even immediately after a run so they didn't have to sit around and waste time.

I just wish that people joining shouts to run with static groups would understand that getting provisioner to make numerous runs successful on a regular basis DOES take quite a bit of effort, usually from multiple people pooling their resources. It's simply not fair to their members to ask someone who contributed to that effort to sit out for someone who hasn't. If you got into the top 20 on your own, good for you! You don't have to share your drops from the captain with anyone! Make your own party if you want to set the rules!

Edit: BTW, if they're a static group, that guy who got the seal from his friend probably passed up a number of seals for that friend before. Good statics don't break until they finish the last member, so if they're a good static, everyone has had to pass up seals within the group at one point or another.

[Meatdawg]

Why shouldn't I reply to posts directed at me? This is a discussion forum is it not?

You know you can talk about things, even debate them, and not be emotionally invested in them. Even in a forum.

Shocking concept, I know.

What you just posted did none of that...

[Bluebun]

This is a very tough call, but unfortunatly I would have to rule in favour of the guy and his friend. Why? Because, althought dishonest, you cannot say the guy who rolled the win on the seal didn't earn it. He was there doing hamlet with the rest of you guys. This kinda of situation happened to me last night, where a militia cuirass dropped, and no one was on the drop, so it went freelot. I got the 2nd highest random, and the person that won the random already had the cuirass, and passed it to someone else. The cuirass was even in my loot table, so it stings to have to pass it to someone that already had it. There wasn't a rule against it, and although dishonest, I can't fault that person for wanting to help their friend out. What if the situation was that someone was lotting for seals since the start of your hamlet runs? You can't deny someone the chance for lotting a seal and passing it to a friend, because they were there to do the same amount of work as everyone else. Next time, you get a friend to do the exact same thing for you.

[Meatdawg]

I disagree, unless you can also cut that seal into 8 pieces.

It also was not a probability I agreed to. Nobody said "hey guys, I'm changing what I want to seal even though I don't need it so that if I win the seal I'm going to give it to this guy."

1/8 does not equal 1/4. And technically, since other people were not bidding on seals at all the actual fractions are 1/3 does not equal 1/2 of lots.

ITT the OP can not get beyond the fact that once you win a lot you are free to do what you want with it.