Small Rant on Seal Rolls in Hamlet parties

[axemtitanium]

What's your proposed alternative then? Current Primal battles have one: "Oh look, my 3rd Garuda's Wile. I didn't even want one and I can't pass it to someone who does."

[Myrhn]

I will do a hamlet with you, win the lot for seal and then drop it. What will be the difference?

[Raikki]

Or SE could just fix it so that players who want to manipulate the system in their favor can no longer do so.

Doing a hamlet with nothing in it for yourself except to help a friend is "manipulating the system in your favor"? I think not. You can't impose your own subjective morality on the rest of the world. The only fair way to handle PUG loot is objectively and individualistically. You agreed to loot odds and you got the loot odds you agreed to. What the winners do doesn't matter, because you're there as an individual and your agreed-upon chance at a seal is the reward for your effort. You're better off taking this as a lesson in how PUGs work than complaining about how the world won't agree with your idea of "fair".

[Wynn]

Doing a hamlet with nothing in it for yourself except to help a friend is "manipulating the system in your favor"? I think not. You can't impose your own subjective morality on the rest of the world. The only fair way to handle PUG loot is objectively and individualistically. You agreed to loot odds and you got the loot odds you agreed to. What the winners do doesn't matter, because you're there as an individual and your agreed-upon chance at a seal is the reward for your effort. You're better off taking this as a lesson in how PUGs work than complaining about how the world won't agree with your idea of "fair".

Well, I will agree with you that what is fair is subjective. And we obviously don't agree on what is.

To correct one point though, the player in question up until the end was there for an item that they wanted. They simply decided to go after a seal for their friend at the end instead of that item. Which we can continue to debate on whether or not making sure someone gets an extra roll on something is a manipulation of the system or not, but I think that is kind of pointless since we won't convince each other.

[Xatsh]

If you are so upset about the change from item to seal, why did you stay in the party. If you thought that was morally wrong and you stayed it is 100% your fault.

I commend the person who passed the seal for thinking of others above himself (He gave up his item to help a friend)... need more people like that person who won the seal.

[Wynn]

If you are so upset about the change from item to seal, why did you stay in the party. If you thought that was morally wrong and you stayed it is 100% your fault.

I commend the person who passed the seal for thinking of others above himself (He gave up his item to help a friend)... need more people like that person who won the seal.

I was not upset about the change. Technically, I'm not upset at all but it does concern me that so many people think this kind of thing is not only ok but normal. It really says a lot about people in general.

If this guy needed the seal he should have been able to roll on it. I would never have a problem with that and why would I? That goes back to the fairness thing. A person that needs it should have an equal chance at getting it.

The issue, and what I'm pointing out as what I believe to be unsporting behavior is changing to an item in the loot pool with the following conditions:

1. Give your friend an extra chance over the other two people he is rolling against for the item.
2. Not disclosing this information when put to a vote in the party if it was ok to change.

Nice spin you have. However, the reality is this was done to reduce the other two players' chances from 1/3 to 1/4 and upping the chances of a single person from 1/3 to 1/2. That is not commendable in my opinion. And yes, in my view that is an absolute manipulation of the system to one person's favor at the expense of others.

[Reika]

What I find wrong with this method of helping your buddies is they sneakily used wynn to do it. They should just wait til the rest of their buddies log on and help and not use people. Do a whole buddy party where all 8 people knowingly agrees that they will be getting seals for the buddy that needs. if you cant get 8 of your own friends that you party with all the time (static) in the party, then you should just follow normal loot rules and not try to sneak things in on people.

Just my thoughts really.

[Gentaro]

There are 8 people working for the seals, if there is one person in there that doesn't need seals he still works as hard as the other 7 do - if he helps a friend out that friend gets a twice as big chance to obtain a seal, but they're putting in twice as much effort into it as the rest does for that chance.


What annoys me are these "provisioner claims first seal" groups with tards who trade in 20k items and think they're god lol

[Wynn]

What I find wrong with this method of helping your buddies is they sneakily used wynn to do it. They should just wait til the rest of their buddies log on and help and not use people. Do a whole buddy party where all 8 people knowingly agrees that they will be getting seals for the buddy that needs. if you cant get 8 of your own friends that you party with all the time (static) in the party, then you should just follow normal loot rules and not try to sneak things in on people.

Just my thoughts really.

Thank you, Reika. And that is really my point in all this. If this had just been disclosed up front, I still wouldn't have been ok with it, but I would have bowed out so they could replace me with someone who was.

But, to be clear, this wasn't the whole rest of the party conspiring against me and the other guy, at least not to my knowledge. This was just two players trying to game the drops on their own. Unfortunately they were successful and I was blind to what was going on until it was too late. My fault for being naive, i guess.

But I know now not to group with either of these people or invite them to my groups anymore. I'll also be cautious about grouping with anyone from their shells from now on, which is a shame.

[Raikki]

Thank you, Reika. And that is really my point in all this. If this had just been disclosed up front, I still wouldn't have been ok with it, but I would have bowed out so they could replace me with someone who was.

But, to be clear, this wasn't the whole rest of the party conspiring against me and the other guy, at least not to my knowledge. This was just two players trying to game the drops on their own. Unfortunately they were successful and I was blind to what was going on until it was too late. My fault for being naive, i guess.

But I know now not to group with either of these people or invite them to my groups anymore. I'll also be cautious about grouping with anyone from their shells from now on, which is a shame.

I'm just shaking my head in disbelief at this point, but if that's what makes you happy you're more than welcome to play the game like that. I'm just trying to warn you that your idea of loot morality is out of the norm here and you're only going to make life harder for yourself if you let things like this impact you so much.

I'll leave you with an analogy:

8 people sit down at a table and are asked to select whether they'd like cake or pie. 4 people pick cake, and the other 4 people pick pie. After they're served, one person gives their slice of cake to their friend. Outraged, Wynn, who also selected cake, complains "that's not fair, he should have to cut his slice of cake into thirds and give us each an equal portion of it!"