If SE is taking away my hard work...

[viion]

No it's not that, I was just wondering why different items, you seem extremely confident about that bow, so I thought it would be a sure bet. What other high ticket items do you think are going go increase in value 500%? I'm curious.

I am not saying the bow is a sure bet it is an example. I dont think any shard if it exists will be 3g/piece instead of 30g, I dont think all of the relics will be 1/10th their value, I dont think Vanya which is 2m on my server will become 200k. I dont think Militia Choker which is about 8m will be 800k. And so on, plenty of items.

I am SICK of seeing this topic come up. 19 likes even, for someone who has no understanding of what redenomination really meas.

SE IS NOT TAKING AWAY ANY OF YOUR WORK. **EVERYONE** is affected by this equally. Money is being scaled, not taken away. All NPC buy/sell prices, all gill rewards and costs, and everything else will also be scaled accordingly.

This does NOT hurt the poor or help the rich. Because of differences in supply and demand, some prices will change, but everything will balance out over time, as it does with any economy be it game or real life.
Whether you have 999 million or just 9 gil, your buying power stays the same (Hell, if you have 5-9 gil, your buying power actually will probably go up very slightly due to rounding).

STOP THE FREAKING PANIC AND STOP HATING ON SE for making a reasonable, logical change to the game. Nothing other than a single arrow buys for less than 10 gil, therefore the extra digit is unnecessary and just makes players deal in larger numbers.

I'm sorry if I sound angry here but I really find the lack of understanding on this issue appalling.

You are late to the thread, so you are yelling and balling about a post someone made yesterday without reading the arguments of why you are wrong.

Once agian, another person who fails to understand the issue.

The amount of mony any person has is irrelevant. Everyone will have porportionally the same amount and same buying power they had before. The only difference is how we're expressing that buying power.

This is called redenominaiton, has happened dozens of times throughout Earth's history and people do not lose money. In effect, all you are doing is trading in 10 small units for 1 larger unit. You have a smaller number of big units that buy the same amount of stuff the larger number of small units bought before. Fears of price gouging are overblown. Supply and Demand will force prices to where they should be over time. EVERYBODY WINS. NOBODY LOSES.

When it happens on Earth, the economy is reduced, all shops sell for less, because its controlled. In an MMO it is not controlled and people do not need to follow the 1/10 reduction for selling.

Everyone will go down the same, Items may not follow that trend, thus your buying power has reduced if all items do not reduce down equally. Read the thread before ya rage much.

[Moonbringer]

What stops them from doing it again?

"7. All gil currently held by players will be reduced to 1/10 of current values."

Wow, so people who worked for 999 million will get dropped to 99 million? Sound fair? You know how long it would take to farm that much money, how much work, time, concentration, focus, and effort? Too much to even fathom.

What's next? Take away my gear, my character, my levels? This is ridiculous. I can see if we all played with the new ps3 players, but we will be with the old players, who have more than enough money with no complaints.

Eventually all the prices will be back to how they were. This is what it is like in EVERY online game.

I have 0 crafts and 0 gathering professions. I literally have no income, I had a nice chunk saved, not spending money until 2.0 came out. I have been saving since day 1 of the announcement. I knew the game would be a waste of time to play. Now look at it? All my dedication, gone...

Square enix, if this happens and you follow through. Ill be very disappointed. I have buying and rebuying remade games from your company for decades and I plan on doing so for decades to come. If I lose all my hard work. I might have to move to mistwalker. Hironobu sakaguchi would never let something like this happen. He knows how a final fantasy game should be made.

If no one can afford things, I guarantee it'll lead to more people buying Gil from online stores.

Oh and btw...retarded ideas like this only affect the poor. It never hurts the rich.

Thank you for your time, and I hope the Devs read my plea.

Yoshi, you're a badass director but this is uncalled for.

Man up and tell the Devs you want that idea scrapped!

Lucky for you you have a friendly linkshell that do have gathering and crafting classes levels and im sure would make you whatever you need if you have the mats or even without on occasion. Dont worry too much for now were just going to have to wait and see how it plays out. Now for me who does have gathering and crafting levelled and cannot seem to save a penny cos im too damn lazy! Now I have a problem lol.

[Alhanelem]

It might help our understanding of the problem if SE published a breakdown of Gil holdings of various players. Let us see how many people have holdings in the 900,000,000 to 999,999,999 range, 8000,000,000 to 899,999,999 range ect. Let us see if there in an inordinate number of people in the upper brackets. If there is then, just maybe, there is a justification to this partial Gil wipe.

Even if there is SEs current planned server setup does not justify a 90% reduction for everyone. The only way a 90% reduction can be justified is if we were being allowed to join any server of our choice. That way new players would not be placed at an extreme disadvantage relative to existing players.As it is we are being restricted to existing servers with existing players and existing economies. Depending on how SE plans to construct Gil making opportunities there will still exist a disparity between people at the high end of Gil holding and those at the low end. If the breakdown of holdings justify it then cap the max holdings at launch to 99,999,999 but let everyone keep what they earned up to that point, as originally promised. Anyway you go this is still a poorly disguised partial Gil wipe.

This is NOT a "gil wipe." nor is it disguised as one. It's called "Redenomination" and has been used throughout our history to keep the numbers that people work with on a day to day basis reasonable- This is usually done when a currency reaches a certain low value due to inflation. Redenomination makes it so you don't need to bring a wheelbarrow full of cash to the market to buy a loaf of bread. And honestly, with the current value of gil, it kind of feels like that. This change makes complete sense, does not take away any of your buying power and I fully support it. ** IT IS NOT A GIL WIPE! **

[Alhanelem]

I am not saying the bow is a sure bet it is an example. I dont think any shard if it exists will be 3g/piece instead of 30g, I dont think all of the relics will be 1/10th their value, I dont think Vanya which is 2m on my server will become 200k. I dont think Militia Choker which is about 8m will be 800k. And so on, plenty of items.



You are late to the thread, so you are yelling and balling about a post someone made yesterday without reading the arguments of why you are wrong.



When it happens on Earth, the economy is reduced, all shops sell for less, because its controlled. In an MMO it is not controlled and people do not need to follow the 1/10 reduction for selling.

Everyone will go down the same, Items may not follow that trend, thus your buying power has reduced if all items do not reduce down equally. Read the thread before ya rage much.

Actually, governments do not control prices in redenomination (Except for commodities that actually have price controls in place). And in this case, the "government" of eorzea IS forcing all the NPCs to charge 1/10th the price and give 1/10th the amount when buying.

Players will NOT be forced to do anything, no, but supply and demand keep prices from going haywire. Over time, people who try to gouge will find they have a hard time selling their stuff and will be forced to drop their price unless they don't like selling things. The game economy has been like this since it began. These price gougers will simply get undercut and everything will stabalize over time. Nobody has anything to worry about at all.

I may be "late to the thread", but I'm not wrong at all. People do NOT understand how redenomination does and does not affect us.

[viion]

Actually, governments do not control prices in redenomination (Except for commodities that actually have price controls in place). And in this case, the "government" of eorzea IS forcing all the NPCs to charge 1/10th the price and give 1/10th the amount when buying.

Players will NOT be forced to do anything, no, but supply and demand keep prices from going haywire. Over time, people who try to gouge will find they have a hard time selling their stuff and will be forced to drop their price unless they don't like selling things. The game economy has been like this since it began. These price gougers will simply get undercut and everything will stabalize over time. Nobody has anything to worry about at all.

No one arguing this cares about NPC prices, no one buys from NPCs, or sells to the NPC to make their money, the NPC situation is irrelevant to the counter argument as its not situated.

How do you know, supply and demand will keep prices from going anywhere, they might find it hard to sell at 1/5th but they might sell at 1/3rd, inflation has proven people do not mind paying high prices. You are predicting here but seem to call people stupid for predicting it won't? right...

You are relying on things stabilizing and going down to 1/10th, the argument in this thread is that the market as a whole will not drop to 1/10th vs it will drop to 1/10th or less, it is likely to get close, I expect a 3/10ths drop, thus lost 20% market value.

Again, read the thread before raging ya eyes out lol.

[Alhanelem]

No one arguing this cares about NPC prices, no one buys from NPCs, or sells to the NPC to make their money, the NPC situation is irrelevant to the counter argument as its not situated.

How do you know, supply and demand will keep prices from going anywhere, they might find it hard to sell at 1/5th but they might sell at 1/3rd, inflation has proven people do not mind paying high prices. You are predicting here but seem to call people stupid for predicting it won't? right...

You are relying on things stabilizing and going down to 1/10th, the argument in this thread is that the market as a whole will not drop to 1/10th vs it will drop to 1/10th or less, it is likely to get close, I expect a 3/10ths drop, thus lost 20% market value.

Again, read the thread before raging ya eyes out lol.

How do I know this? Because supply and demand is an elementray economics concept. You can look at any economy, video game or real, and prices go up and down with supply and demand. You can hypothosize and assume the worst about how people will price things, but it is illogical. No sane person will price themselves out of the targ et audience for an item. If they do, people who have a lick of sense will undercut them and get all the sales easily. This is basic level economics, and something anyone who has studied it at all should understand. I see "AH, people will drop their prices but it wont be by 90%!" It doesn't matter what people set their prices to initially. Items are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. All you have to do is not buy the item if you're the buyer, or undercut the person trying to jack the price if you're a seller, and the problem solves itself over time.

[Rizon]

This is NOT a "gil wipe." nor is it disguised as one. It's called "Redenomination" and has been used throughout our history to keep the numbers that people work with on a day to day basis reasonable- This is usually done when a currency reaches a certain low value due to inflation. Redenomination makes it so you don't need to bring a wheelbarrow full of cash to the market to buy a loaf of bread. And honestly, with the current value of gil, it kind of feels like that. This change makes complete sense, does not take away any of your buying power and I fully support it. ** IT IS NOT A GIL WIPE! **

So, are you telling me that SE is going to establish their own version of the Federal Reserve Board and other regulatory agencies to keep the economy in check. If not then we are destined to repeat the cycle over and over again.

[Zenaku]

No one arguing this cares about NPC prices, no one buys from NPCs, or sells to the NPC to make their money, the NPC situation is irrelevant to the counter argument as its not situated.

How do you know, supply and demand will keep prices from going anywhere, they might find it hard to sell at 1/5th but they might sell at 1/3rd, inflation has proven people do not mind paying high prices. You are predicting here but seem to call people stupid for predicting it won't? right...

You are relying on things stabilizing and going down to 1/10th, the argument in this thread is that the market as a whole will not drop to 1/10th vs it will drop to 1/10th or less, it is likely to get close, I expect a 3/10ths drop, thus lost 20% market value.

Again, read the thread before raging ya eyes out lol.

I sell to npc don't know what you talking about people sell item in the ward for less then you could sell it for a NPC. So when i see that why would i put it up the ward just sell it to the npc i make easy 1-2mil selling to the npc from farming stuff that are worthless to waste time putting up on the ward.

[viion]

How do I know this? Because supply and demand is an elementray economics concept. You can look at any economy, video game or real, and prices go up and down with supply and demand. You can hypothosize and assume the worst about how people will price things, but it is illogical. No sane person will price themselves out of the targ et audience for an item. If they do, people who have a lick of sense will undercut them and get all the sales easily. This is basic level economics, and something anyone who has studied it at all should understand. I see "AH, people will drop their prices but it wont be by 90%!" It doesn't matter what people set their prices to initially. Items are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. All you have to do is not buy the item if you're the buyer, or undercut the person trying to jack the price if you're a seller, and the problem solves itself over time.

Solves itself over time, as people gain more money and the item that was gradually reducing over the month is now affordable because everyone has gained gil in that time, thus it balances out at a higher rate, thus costing more than it originally did.

You are so confused and I seriously, recommended you to go back and view some of the debates because you are not going to have a fundamental argument when you're out of the loop of what has already been debated.

I see to npc don't know what you talking about people sell item in the ward for less then you could sell it for a NPC. So when i see that why would i put it up the ward just sell it to the npc i make easy 1-2mil selling to the npc from farming stuff that are worthless to waste time putting up on the ward.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, you could not go buy item from ward and sell to npc for profit because the item might be 50k n sell for 50g. But the same item can be bought from vendor for 40k. Many items are like this and it has been a money making tactic for some, to buy from vendor and resell on AH. This was a key money making scheme around a year ago and is still valid in some areas on my server.

[Alhanelem]

So, are you telling me that SE is going to establish their own version of the Federal Reserve Board and other regulatory agencies to keep the economy in check. If not then we are destined to repeat the cycle over and over again.

What I'm telling you is this:

The amount of money the system creates and the amount it removes through gil sinks are also scaled porportionally in the same amount that our own gil is being changed by. Thus, value is coming in and out of the system at the same rate it was before (note the word "value"- it's important). Because of this, it won't be realistically possible for people to charge substantially differently without preventing people from being able to buy, and thereby forcing them to adjust their prices until people ARE willing to buy. You, the buyer, have a lot of power to speak with your wallet and prevent any significant economic change from taking place.

Because the demand for some items will change (because a lot of items are being changed/added/removed from the game), no, prices are not going to be exactly the same as they were before. But they already varied a lot from one server to the next and with rising and falling needs. So while some things will change, there isn't going to be some kind of economic cataclysm like some people here are hypthoesizing.