If SE is taking away my hard work...

[viion]

Yes, but in 2.0, 10m is the equivalent of 100m in 1.0. Nobody in their right mind would pay that price for the item.

I was talking about NPC prices. Player prices won't go down to exactly 1/10th of what they are now. They will go down though as EVERYONE will have reduced gil and anyone with half a brain won't be buying things at the 1.0 prices. If they do, let them waste all of their money quickly so prices can start going down. Anyone who wants to sell to new players won't be able to use 1.0 prices as they simply won't be able to afford items at that price. The smart seller would take this into account and price them reasonably for all players.

With or without the denomination of gil we'd have to re-evaluate prices for 2.0 anyway. The function and demand of items will change in response to the changes they're making.

This is very frustrating, please quote me where I said people will buy items in 2.0 at 1.0 prices? PLEASE quote me.

I think you will find I have constantly said prices will not go down to 1/10th over and over.

If an item is 10m. You all seem to think it will eventually become 1m. What if it never does? My argument is about this what if with the prediction it wont. If it goes to 1m and 1 Gil, you have lost 1 Gil. That is what my argument is about.

I NEVER ONCE said prices will stay at 1.0 values, I am stating they will NOT be 1/10th and thus I consider the amount it does not reduce by is a loss.

eg: 10m to 1m item 10m to 3m, loss 2m.

Now I will be wrong if items go to 1/10th (ONLY items of 1.0, items of 2.0 can be as expensive as they like, they are valued to their attributes). If items of 1.0 go down to 1/10th or less in 5 years, I have been proven wrong. Does not matter how long it takes because my theory, my prediction is it never will, not at the start, not 1month after, not 5 years after.

both sides are feeling their way. you either feel prices will al drop to 10% of their previous price or you believe prices will drop to different %' after in which you may can buy more or you can buy less. both sides are assuming their way is correct, but neither has any facts to back it up. how do i figure neither side has facts? there's multiple reasons prices will change come 2.0.

1. new players entering the game. with new players entering the game you will have an increased demand for items which will directly change the supply available and the cost of each item.

2. new items entering the game. with new items coming into the game the demand for some "great items" now will drop due to the fact they become less coveted. if something new comes out that's better than previous the values will change.

3. overall market instability. when a conversion change happens there's always a short term instability it causes. yes, the markets eventually stabilize, but rarely are they eve at the exact conversion rate. items may jump to 500% of their previous value for a short time and then drop consistently until they find the new value to stop on. some may wind up dropping to 5% of their previous value and some may raise in value(notice i didn't say price, but value). those that raise in value will drop in price due to the 90% reduction in overall gil, but they will not drop to the estimated 10% of their previous cost.

4. changes to the gear/materia values. with the upcoming changes to the amount of stats you can get from gear that uper weapon may become next to worthless due to the upcoming changes. the value of materia could switch from one type of materia being wanted to another that nobody wants atm.

5. lack of information. with everything being so hidden as far as specifics nobody can guess what will be increasing in price and what will be dropping. none of us know what will decrease in value nor what will increase due do the upcoming changes.

6. anyone that claims they know that every price will be exactly 10% to sell or that nothing will drop are completely clueless.

the key is prices and values will change. sure you may not be able to buy exactly the same amount of one item in 2.0, but you may be able to buy 10x as many of another item. values in items will change, but they are not due to just gill changes. many other factors will affect the changes in values of items.

I respect you so much for that post, taking in consideration for what is being said and clearly defining a very good argument for both, thank you. Your number 5 is very vital, it is the reason people like the OP are panicking.

[KiriA500]

I respect you so much for that post, taking in consideration for what is being said and clearly defining a very good argument for both, thank you. Your number 5 is very vital, it is the reason people like the OP are panicking.

The number 5 detail is a useless point in this argument. While, yes, more information is helpful...it doesn't do anything for this issue. Everybody is freaking out over player controlled prices, which Square-Enix has absolutely no control over. There's no lack of information, it's just people panicking because they don't like change.

Another thing people seem to forget is price gouging. Every single time a new item has been released, it's sold at a huge mark-up. I remember buying a Red Cobalt Cuirass for about 500k when it was first released. That item is NOT worth that price now, because of how easy it is to obtain materials...but at the time, every single item used in that recipe was priced super high because of demand.

Everyone needs to stop, take a breath...and remember that this stuff is not new to online games at all and things work out in time.

[viion]

The number 5 detail is a useless point. While, yes, more information is helpful...it doesn't do anything for this issue. Everybody is freaking out over player controlled prices, which Square-Enix has absolutely no control over. There's no lack of information, it's just people panicking because they don't like change.

Okay I think I should have expanded.

There is lack of information on:
- how you earn Gil.
- how you loose Gil (through Sinks).
- how the AH/TP will work.

There is not enough information about what they are planning to do to sustain an equal economy and reduce inflation as a whole, and what measures are they putting in to prevent exploits like the recent Atomos multi-million exploit, Nore what operations they plan to do to deal with gold sellers, in XIV it was never much of an issue, we seem to think people do not buy, however in XI this was not the case, plenty bought and it was a serious problem. we have not been told much, a lack of information.

[Deatheye]

Nore what operations they plan to do to deal with gold sellers, in XIV it was never much of an issue, we seem to think people do not buy, however in XI this was not the case, plenty bought and it was a serious problem.

Someone in this thread wrote something about SE going to make it harder to acquire gil. I'm sure people allready buy gil, there would be no reason for gil farmers to exist without buyers. If they really do make it harder to acquire or implement more sink I wonder if they going to do anything more against the seller, cause in both cases the interest on the buyer side will rise.
Less then 8 USD for a milion is terrible cheap.

[darkstarpoet1]

Someone in this thread wrote something about SE going to make it harder to acquire gil. I'm sure people allready buy gil, there would be no reason for gil farmers to exist without buyers. If they really do make it harder to acquire or implement more sink I wonder if they going to do anything more against the seller, cause in both cases the interest on the buyer side will rise.
Less then 8 USD for a milion is terrible cheap.

it may be harder, but the gil sellers are still going to be making the same profits. right now whatever they sell it for will just be dropped to the same percentage we just dropped. it took nothing from the gil sellers. idk what they sell for, but i'll use your example. if they sell 8usd for 1mil now it'll just become 8usd for 100k. they will still have the exact same value because they dropped the exact same percentage as everyone else.

[viion]

it may be harder, but the gil sellers are still going to be making the same profits. right now whatever they sell it for will just be dropped to the same percentage we just dropped. it took nothing from the gil sellers. idk what they sell for, but i'll use your example. if they sell 8usd for 1mil now it'll just become 8usd for 100k. they will still have the exact same value because they dropped the exact same percentage as everyone else.

That will be interesting to find out, I personally dont think they will sell 100k for 8USD, I just dont have faith RMT will be "fair" like that. Especially if new players and this whole situation causes more demand from buyers.

Earning and losing gil by gil sink should remain the same as their are now.

If a current guildleve gives 10,000 gil as a reward, it'll give 1,000 gil as a reward in A Realm Reborn. If an item is bought from an NPC vendor for 10,000 gil, it'll be bought for 1,000 gil in A Realm Reborn.

As for gil sinks, we currently have 5,000 gil airship rides for a level 50 player, which will drop to 500 gil in A Realm Reborn. Just like NPC vendor items, such as a 15,000 gil weapon being sold for 1,500 gil. The 1/10 ratio applied to all this stuff means we aren't losing any gil.

The AH/TP thing is still player driven, so that's not a Square-Enix problem. We currently have a tax on the Market Wards items, which is a huge sink, but that's just a % of the sold item. If we get an Auction House similar to Final Fantasy XI, all it does is remove the tax when you place the item up for sale instead of taking it out of the amount you sold it for. It's the same.

As for the Atamos exploit, the only reason that was such a problem was because it was from an event where you got the items for spamming the same mob as everybody else, therefore you could do nothing and still be rewarded. The items you bought with the company seals had a high value to an NPC, so everyone spammed it. People did the same thing in Final Fantasy XI with Remedies for a while, but it was only profitable if you were the alchemist making the items that you farmed yourself. The price of those was altered because a fight came along that handed those out as a reward. Square-Enix just needs to realize that if you hand out stuff for free, people are going to exploit it if it's profitable to them.

Very true that people do exploit these advantages, and they drive up the economy big, those who did not exploit are being affected by it, its not nice really but thats tough to deal with.

Also, Atamos had nothing to do with guildeves or quests, it was vendor prices, and look how tiny the price was and how it made people have multi-millions in such a short period of time. You could see an item at 1k now and in ARR be vendored for 100g, what happens when an exploit or a "unforeseen" situation occurs in that people are able to make millions upon millions from that 100g item. Its something they need really try avoid. (This happened massively at GW2 launch with Karma and caused suspension!).

The gil sinks you mentioned do not effected me, only the AH one, which is very little to the amount I earn, because i "recuperate" it immediately, where as airship, or choco or repair i'd loose it with no return immediately. Those 3 things are irrelevant sinks to me and I imagine many many others as they do not use those services.

[darkstarpoet1]

That will be interesting to find out, I personally dont think they will sell 100k for 8USD, I just dont have faith RMT will be "fair" like that. Especially if new players and this whole situation causes more demand from buyers.

oh i'm not giving a real usd amount because i have no clue of what they are selling for now. what i am saying is that people keep saying the rmt lost a ton of gil. that's just not the case because they will either increase their selling price by 10 for the same amount as previous or give you 1/10th of the previous amount for the same value. he stated an amount of 8-per-mil now is why i used the 8-per-hundredk, but could be just as easily 80-per-mil.

edit: now on the demand changing you could be correct there. if the demand for their "services" are increased the value to them will increase.

[KiriA500]

There is lack of information on:
- how you earn Gil.
- how you loose Gil (through Sinks).
- how the AH/TP will work.

Earning and losing gil by gil sink should remain the same as their are now.

If a current guildleve gives 10,000 gil as a reward, it'll give 1,000 gil as a reward in A Realm Reborn. If an item is bought from an NPC vendor for 10,000 gil, it'll be bought for 1,000 gil in A Realm Reborn.

As for gil sinks, we currently have 5,000 gil airship rides for a level 50 player, which will drop to 500 gil in A Realm Reborn. Just like NPC vendor items, such as a 15,000 gil weapon being sold for 1,500 gil. The 1/10 ratio applied to all this stuff means we aren't losing any gil.

The AH/TP thing is still player driven, so that's not a Square-Enix problem. We currently have a tax on the Market Wards items, which is a huge sink, but that's just a % of the sold item. If we get an Auction House similar to Final Fantasy XI, all it does is remove the tax when you place the item up for sale instead of taking it out of the amount you sold it for. It's the same.

As for the Atamos exploit, the only reason that was such a problem was because it was from an event where you got the items for spamming the same mob as everybody else, therefore you could do nothing and still be rewarded. The items you bought with the company seals had a high value to an NPC, so everyone spammed it. People did the same thing in Final Fantasy XI with Remedies for a while, but it was only profitable if you were the alchemist making the items that you farmed yourself. The price of those was altered because a fight came along that handed those out as a reward. Square-Enix just needs to realize that if you hand out stuff for free, people are going to exploit it if it's profitable to them.

[darkstarpoet1]

I respect you so much for that post, taking in consideration for what is being said and clearly defining a very good argument for both, thank you. Your number 5 is very vital, it is the reason people like the OP are panicking.

well the thing is if people have followed the lists of changes they have a very good idea of what they want to keep in their inventory or what they want to spend gil on now. i have worries on the value of gil come 2.0, but they are not based solely on the 10to1 conversion. there's many factors that are going to change and to look at only 1 factor and completely ignore the rest is to make a huge mistake.

personally, i have many items i have invested huge amounts of gil into previous to the severs going down. there's also many items i wouldn't purchase if my life depended on it atm due to upcoming changes.

example: if someone goes out and just buys every double melded piece of gear they can get their hands on because those are valuable now without looking at the other postings on upcoming changes they can be either really smart or completely ignorant if they haven't looked at the changes as a whole.

The number 5 detail is a useless point in this argument. While, yes, more information is helpful...it doesn't do anything for this issue. Everybody is freaking out over player controlled prices, which Square-Enix has absolutely no control over. There's no lack of information, it's just people panicking because they don't like change.

actually number 5 is just as valuable as any other point in that post. it is exactly what my post was about if you read the whole thing. it's a prime example of people looking at one issue that will cause a reaction without looking at all of the other changes as a whole.

let's use a few examples as a point:
say right now wind shards are 30 gil
come 2.0 the expected value is 3gil.
2.0 releases and shards are even further lowered on what's needed the price can drop.
2.0 releases and people need more the price will rise.
2.0 releases and with the instability it may only drop to 6gil each(200% previous value)

if people only look at one reason the market will change they are only fooling themselves. the market will change for multiple reasons, but looking at only 1 cause is what leads to having posts like this. the market changes every patch in which something new is released and this time it will change just like all the others. after each patch and new items are released every item related to it faces a change in value.