If SE is taking away my hard work...

[Arcell]

SHOULD. Key word, Should. It might not, because its player controlled. And from 1.0 economy crisis, I, predict (and think) people will not sell things at 1/10th thus you will NOT be able to buy 5 items with 100g because people are not selling cheap enough to allow you.

I have dominated a few items in the ward over the time, and I will try again. If you can go buy 100 Wind Shards with 1000 now, whos to say you can buy 100 Wind Shards in 2.0 with 100g? You may have to pay 300G for 100 shards.

You could argue that YOU would never pay insane prices. An item going from 1000 to 300 rather than 100, you could say "No! No one would buy it at 200% its value", but past economy already proves this is not the case. I have successfully rendered items at 200-300 sometimes 500%(on materials/shards) more than their original value before dominating. It goes to show that sometimes people will pay exceeding prices, if they feel its good value.

This is what the whole argument is about btw, the prediction of what people will buy/sell for.

I was talking about NPC prices. Player prices won't go down to exactly 1/10th of what they are now. They will go down though as EVERYONE will have reduced gil and anyone with half a brain won't be buying things at the 1.0 prices. If they do, let them waste all of their money quickly so prices can start going down. Anyone who wants to sell to new players won't be able to use 1.0 prices as they simply won't be able to afford items at that price. The smart seller would take this into account and price them reasonably for all players.

With or without the denomination of gil we'd have to re-evaluate prices for 2.0 anyway. The function and demand of items will change in response to the changes they're making.

[KiriA500]

I would pay 30m. I have 30m.
In 2.0 if the price goes to 10m. I will have 3m.
I wont be able to buy it anymore.

Yes, but in 2.0, 10m is the equivalent of 100m in 1.0. Nobody in their right mind would pay that price for the item.

[darkstarpoet1]

both sides are feeling their way. you either feel prices will al drop to 10% of their previous price or you believe prices will drop to different %' after in which you may can buy more or you can buy less. both sides are assuming their way is correct, but neither has any facts to back it up. how do i figure neither side has facts? there's multiple reasons prices will change come 2.0.

1. new players entering the game. with new players entering the game you will have an increased demand for items which will directly change the supply available and the cost of each item.

2. new items entering the game. with new items coming into the game the demand for some "great items" now will drop due to the fact they become less coveted. if something new comes out that's better than previous the values will change.

3. overall market instability. when a conversion change happens there's always a short term instability it causes. yes, the markets eventually stabilize, but rarely are they eve at the exact conversion rate. items may jump to 500% of their previous value for a short time and then drop consistently until they find the new value to stop on. some may wind up dropping to 5% of their previous value and some may raise in value(notice i didn't say price, but value). those that raise in value will drop in price due to the 90% reduction in overall gil, but they will not drop to the estimated 10% of their previous cost.

4. changes to the gear/materia values. with the upcoming changes to the amount of stats you can get from gear that uper weapon may become next to worthless due to the upcoming changes. the value of materia could switch from one type of materia being wanted to another that nobody wants atm.

5. lack of information. with everything being so hidden as far as specifics nobody can guess what will be increasing in price and what will be dropping. none of us know what will decrease in value nor what will increase due do the upcoming changes.

6. anyone that claims they know that every price will be exactly 10% to sell or that nothing will drop are completely clueless.

the key is prices and values will change. sure you may not be able to buy exactly the same amount of one item in 2.0, but you may be able to buy 10x as many of another item. values in items will change, but they are not due to just gill changes. many other factors will affect the changes in values of items.

[Deatheye]

When the value of that 1 = what was previously 10, yes 10 (in 1.0) does = 1 (in 2.0). The buying power of 1 gil in 2.0 equals the buying power of 10 gil in 1.0. You are not losing gil.

no loss of Buingpower ≠ no loss of gill
I think you understand that. Sry sometimes I take stuff too verbally and this forum really makes it hard to figure out what people get and what not...

You clearly didn't pay much attention in mathematics. They're not dividing a single variable by 10, they're dividing ALL variables by 10. This keeps things equal, just with smaller numbers. Basic math.

still does not make 1=10...
You can divide as much as you like stuff by 10...
Also does not change that people with more money lose more.

Did anyone ever think about the following:
Player A 900'000'000 -->90'000'000 Loss: 810'000'000
Player B 90'000'000 -->9'000'000 Loss: 81'000'000

Does also not change the fact that person A loses more then person B, and that Person A did invest more Time which is wasted.
Only Slatfatf till now commented on this and seems (judged from the comments) he seems to be the only one getting what I'm hinting at or everyone else just ignores it for what ever reason.

I never argued about buyingpower cause I don't have deep enough knowledge about what happens in a market when they start to reove zeros from theyre money. I know from the change germany made to euro that a lot of prises stayed at the same numerical value, which meant u payed more for the same after the euro was used. So I wouldn't be sure the prices really go down to 1/10. But there is so much that can influence that. Like for example how hard / annoying / timely it is to get ressources or make stuff out of them compared to version 1.0 that I could use a die to guess the change...

[viion]

Yes, but in 2.0, 10m is the equivalent of 100m in 1.0. Nobody in their right mind would pay that price for the item.

I was talking about NPC prices. Player prices won't go down to exactly 1/10th of what they are now. They will go down though as EVERYONE will have reduced gil and anyone with half a brain won't be buying things at the 1.0 prices. If they do, let them waste all of their money quickly so prices can start going down. Anyone who wants to sell to new players won't be able to use 1.0 prices as they simply won't be able to afford items at that price. The smart seller would take this into account and price them reasonably for all players.

With or without the denomination of gil we'd have to re-evaluate prices for 2.0 anyway. The function and demand of items will change in response to the changes they're making.

This is very frustrating, please quote me where I said people will buy items in 2.0 at 1.0 prices? PLEASE quote me.

I think you will find I have constantly said prices will not go down to 1/10th over and over.

If an item is 10m. You all seem to think it will eventually become 1m. What if it never does? My argument is about this what if with the prediction it wont. If it goes to 1m and 1 Gil, you have lost 1 Gil. That is what my argument is about.

I NEVER ONCE said prices will stay at 1.0 values, I am stating they will NOT be 1/10th and thus I consider the amount it does not reduce by is a loss.

eg: 10m to 1m item 10m to 3m, loss 2m.

Now I will be wrong if items go to 1/10th (ONLY items of 1.0, items of 2.0 can be as expensive as they like, they are valued to their attributes). If items of 1.0 go down to 1/10th or less in 5 years, I have been proven wrong. Does not matter how long it takes because my theory, my prediction is it never will, not at the start, not 1month after, not 5 years after.

both sides are feeling their way. you either feel prices will al drop to 10% of their previous price or you believe prices will drop to different %' after in which you may can buy more or you can buy less. both sides are assuming their way is correct, but neither has any facts to back it up. how do i figure neither side has facts? there's multiple reasons prices will change come 2.0.

1. new players entering the game. with new players entering the game you will have an increased demand for items which will directly change the supply available and the cost of each item.

2. new items entering the game. with new items coming into the game the demand for some "great items" now will drop due to the fact they become less coveted. if something new comes out that's better than previous the values will change.

3. overall market instability. when a conversion change happens there's always a short term instability it causes. yes, the markets eventually stabilize, but rarely are they eve at the exact conversion rate. items may jump to 500% of their previous value for a short time and then drop consistently until they find the new value to stop on. some may wind up dropping to 5% of their previous value and some may raise in value(notice i didn't say price, but value). those that raise in value will drop in price due to the 90% reduction in overall gil, but they will not drop to the estimated 10% of their previous cost.

4. changes to the gear/materia values. with the upcoming changes to the amount of stats you can get from gear that uper weapon may become next to worthless due to the upcoming changes. the value of materia could switch from one type of materia being wanted to another that nobody wants atm.

5. lack of information. with everything being so hidden as far as specifics nobody can guess what will be increasing in price and what will be dropping. none of us know what will decrease in value nor what will increase due do the upcoming changes.

6. anyone that claims they know that every price will be exactly 10% to sell or that nothing will drop are completely clueless.

the key is prices and values will change. sure you may not be able to buy exactly the same amount of one item in 2.0, but you may be able to buy 10x as many of another item. values in items will change, but they are not due to just gill changes. many other factors will affect the changes in values of items.

I respect you so much for that post, taking in consideration for what is being said and clearly defining a very good argument for both, thank you. Your number 5 is very vital, it is the reason people like the OP are panicking.

[Almalexia]

Lol, I see what you're doing and you're just making my point stronger by acting like an angry child, that is cool though that you believe those things. I dont, but I don't care enough to argue about that, I care about arguing my point of "We are losing Gil - And that is a good thing".

Reasons I Believe The Redenomination Will Reduce My Buying Power
by viion

• I believe it will happen.

[KiriA500]

I respect you so much for that post, taking in consideration for what is being said and clearly defining a very good argument for both, thank you. Your number 5 is very vital, it is the reason people like the OP are panicking.

The number 5 detail is a useless point in this argument. While, yes, more information is helpful...it doesn't do anything for this issue. Everybody is freaking out over player controlled prices, which Square-Enix has absolutely no control over. There's no lack of information, it's just people panicking because they don't like change.

Another thing people seem to forget is price gouging. Every single time a new item has been released, it's sold at a huge mark-up. I remember buying a Red Cobalt Cuirass for about 500k when it was first released. That item is NOT worth that price now, because of how easy it is to obtain materials...but at the time, every single item used in that recipe was priced super high because of demand.

Everyone needs to stop, take a breath...and remember that this stuff is not new to online games at all and things work out in time.

[darkstarpoet1]

I respect you so much for that post, taking in consideration for what is being said and clearly defining a very good argument for both, thank you. Your number 5 is very vital, it is the reason people like the OP are panicking.

well the thing is if people have followed the lists of changes they have a very good idea of what they want to keep in their inventory or what they want to spend gil on now. i have worries on the value of gil come 2.0, but they are not based solely on the 10to1 conversion. there's many factors that are going to change and to look at only 1 factor and completely ignore the rest is to make a huge mistake.

personally, i have many items i have invested huge amounts of gil into previous to the severs going down. there's also many items i wouldn't purchase if my life depended on it atm due to upcoming changes.

example: if someone goes out and just buys every double melded piece of gear they can get their hands on because those are valuable now without looking at the other postings on upcoming changes they can be either really smart or completely ignorant if they haven't looked at the changes as a whole.

The number 5 detail is a useless point in this argument. While, yes, more information is helpful...it doesn't do anything for this issue. Everybody is freaking out over player controlled prices, which Square-Enix has absolutely no control over. There's no lack of information, it's just people panicking because they don't like change.

actually number 5 is just as valuable as any other point in that post. it is exactly what my post was about if you read the whole thing. it's a prime example of people looking at one issue that will cause a reaction without looking at all of the other changes as a whole.

let's use a few examples as a point:
say right now wind shards are 30 gil
come 2.0 the expected value is 3gil.
2.0 releases and shards are even further lowered on what's needed the price can drop.
2.0 releases and people need more the price will rise.
2.0 releases and with the instability it may only drop to 6gil each(200% previous value)

if people only look at one reason the market will change they are only fooling themselves. the market will change for multiple reasons, but looking at only 1 cause is what leads to having posts like this. the market changes every patch in which something new is released and this time it will change just like all the others. after each patch and new items are released every item related to it faces a change in value.

[viion]

The number 5 detail is a useless point. While, yes, more information is helpful...it doesn't do anything for this issue. Everybody is freaking out over player controlled prices, which Square-Enix has absolutely no control over. There's no lack of information, it's just people panicking because they don't like change.

Okay I think I should have expanded.

There is lack of information on:
- how you earn Gil.
- how you loose Gil (through Sinks).
- how the AH/TP will work.

There is not enough information about what they are planning to do to sustain an equal economy and reduce inflation as a whole, and what measures are they putting in to prevent exploits like the recent Atomos multi-million exploit, Nore what operations they plan to do to deal with gold sellers, in XIV it was never much of an issue, we seem to think people do not buy, however in XI this was not the case, plenty bought and it was a serious problem. we have not been told much, a lack of information.

[Felis]

both sides are feeling their way. you either feel prices will al drop to 10% of their previous price or you believe prices will drop to different %' after in which you may can buy more or you can buy less. both sides are assuming their way is correct, but neither has any facts to back it up. how do i figure neither side has facts? there's multiple reasons prices will change come 2.0.

1. new players entering the game. with new players entering the game you will have an increased demand for items which will directly change the supply available and the cost of each item.

2. new items entering the game. with new items coming into the game the demand for some "great items" now will drop due to the fact they become less coveted. if something new comes out that's better than previous the values will change.

3. overall market instability. when a conversion change happens there's always a short term instability it causes. yes, the markets eventually stabilize, but rarely are they eve at the exact conversion rate. items may jump to 500% of their previous value for a short time and then drop consistently until they find the new value to stop on. some may wind up dropping to 5% of their previous value and some may raise in value(notice i didn't say price, but value). those that raise in value will drop in price due to the 90% reduction in overall gil, but they will not drop to the estimated 10% of their previous cost.

4. changes to the gear/materia values. with the upcoming changes to the amount of stats you can get from gear that uper weapon may become next to worthless due to the upcoming changes. the value of materia could switch from one type of materia being wanted to another that nobody wants atm.

5. lack of information. with everything being so hidden as far as specifics nobody can guess what will be increasing in price and what will be dropping. none of us know what will decrease in value nor what will increase due do the upcoming changes.

6. anyone that claims they know that every price will be exactly 10% to sell or that nothing will drop are completely clueless.

the key is prices and values will change. sure you may not be able to buy exactly the same amount of one item in 2.0, but you may be able to buy 10x as many of another item. values in items will change, but they are not due to just gill changes. many other factors will affect the changes in values of items.

+1
Like I say, price will change. With or without the redenomination, the current prices don't work in ARR. Items that are costly now can be cheap in ARR and the other way. The redenomination would be only 1 part from many for the future prices.