If SE is taking away my hard work...

[Punainen]

The one countering point I can make to that position, Punainen, is that items are not going to be a straight conversion from 1.0 supplies and demands to 2.0 supplies and demands.

Whether prices ever come close to the 1/10th relative ratio standard is really immaterial because the value for those items will depend solely on their place in the 2.0 economy. They really won't have any relation to 1.0 pricing beyond coincidence. Some items may be worth more some items may be worth less... some might even miraculously hit that 1/10th mark but after the first week... the first month... the first year... the price for every item will be where the 2.0 economy places it, and it will have absolutely no link to the value items used to have in 1.0.

The redenomination is going to have far less of an impact than you think it will.

and to viion:



I made no such assertions with my argument. None whatsoever. My argument is based on the belief that the economy in 2.0 will function like every economy everywhere.

At the start of 2.0 prices may indeed be exorbitantly high. But when the economy has time to stabilize I doubt they will remain so. Not because of gum drops and rainbows and hippie love-ins. But because of how economies work. Because when the price doesn't fit the demand for an item it won't stay there. The people you are afraid of may sell a few of their over priced items at first, but I would be absolutely amazed if the prices used in the first week of 2.0 persist passed the first month.

Except you're ASSUMING that NO items or MOST items will not have the same place or function as 1.0... That scenario seems pretty unlikely. IF that's the case, then you have a point; but I highly doubt that SE is revamping every single recipe and item to the point that they no longer hold the same place and value to the game as before.

[Punainen]

Why should someone a sell an item for 1/10th and care about what is trying to happen with redenomination when when he can sell it at 5/10ths of its current value, and 20 other people can sell for around that mark also.

Exactly. People are not robots who will bend to the 'laws of economy'. They are greedy greedy greedy and get all that they can for as long as they can, and wont give a crap if they're technically charging more. If someone will buy it from them, or HAS to buy it from them, they WILL sell it for that price.

[KiriA500]

Exactly. People are not robots who will bend to the 'laws of economy'. They are greedy greedy greedy and get all that they can for as long as they can, and wont give a crap if they're technically charging more. If someone will buy it from them, or HAS to buy it from them, they WILL sell it for that price.

Except, you know, people have limits. Let me know the next time someone spends $100 on a Snicker's bar, because they just HAD TO HAVE IT!!!

[Ferth]

Except you're ASSUMING that NO items or MOST items will not have the same place or function as 1.0... That scenario seems pretty unlikely. IF that's the case, then you have a point; but I highly doubt that SE is revamping every single recipe and item to the point that they no longer hold the same place and value to the game as before.

That's the thing, though. I'm not making that assumption at all. You are projecting that view point onto my argument because it is the view you already hold.

Some items probably are going to jump up significantly in price. But I'd be willing to bet that most of those items are worth next to nothing right now. The higher the inherent value of an item though, the less likely it is going to follow that trend.

Using Viion's same example of a double melded Sarnga used for relic. Assuming it retains it's function as the base item for the relic bow, right now at the price tag of 30m if someone who has capped gil (999,999,999) wants to buy that bow it's not a huge investment in terms of their total wealth. (3%) If they want it, they probably won't think twice about buying it.

If after the redenomination the price for a double melded sarnga only drops to 15m and that same person drops from 999,999,999 to 99,999,999 then suddenly the cost of that bow is suddenly 15% of their total wealth they will be far less likely to buy it on a whim than they were when it was only 3%. They might decide that they still really want it and are willing to pay for it but chances are they'll probably choose to wait until the price drops. If they decide to wait, how long will it take for the person trying to sell it at 15m to reprice it lower? How long will it take for someone else to make one and try and price it lower? How long will it take for someone to actually buy it? all of that is up in the air.

If you want to fear that the buyer will give in before the seller, then fine. I can't really tell you you are wrong. Because we won't know unless and until it happens. But it also won't be a stable price until it happens numerous times.

I believe that every item will find it's new price in 2.0 after a period of uncertainty, and regardless of where those prices fall in relation to their 1.0 counterparts I will have the same relative wealth with which to purchase them as I had before the redenomination, because I also believe that the economy in 2.0 will function like a brand new economy and won't try to relate to old prices from 1.0.

Whether those prices as a whole trend toward being higher, being lower or magically average out to pretty close it doesn't really matter because the prices will be dictated by the current demand weighted by the supply. Not by how much they used to cost several months ago when the game was completely different.

[moriandrio]

Exactly. People are not robots who will bend to the 'laws of economy'. They are greedy greedy greedy and get all that they can for as long as they can, and wont give a crap if they're technically charging more. If someone will buy it from them, or HAS to buy it from them, they WILL sell it for that price.

This only works if ppl really pay double price which might happen at the start but i doubt it will after some time passed. When did you see last tiime in this game that ppl don't undercut each others and dump the price. There are way more things I could list here to show that we can't say where the market most likely will go cause there are way too many things we don't know.

This discussion is pointless like it was a few weeks ago.

[Deatheye]

Did anyone ever think about the following:
Player A 900'000'000 -->90'000'000 Loss: 810'000'000
Player B 90'000'000 -->9'000'000 Loss: 81'000'000

This means that the more money you actually have now the more buying power you loose, also the more playtime gets nullified. I can understand that some people get angry and dissapointed when they think about the time they spent with the main purpose of aquiring money and now they just loose it and get nothing out if it.
For the overall market this may be positiv but for the individual that looses that money its much more then just everyone same percentual loss for everyone.
Would anyone think its funny to build a house for a year, then I come and destroy it telling you we need to even the missbalance, your house was to big compared to that other guys house. So his stays, yours gets totaly destroyed. You can spend that year again to build it.
Basically SE made an error, now they try to balance it out hurting the players that put more effort into getting financally well.

[Felis]

So when we go into ARR with 10% of our currency and then an item begins to drop over 1-2 months to 1/10th, guess what? PEOPLE HAVE EARNED MONEY IN THAT TIME. Why are people so blind to see this?

Only if someone buyed it in this time

[Felis]

I have not post my thoughts on this but this sums up about what i feel about this, it's the reason i bought a Vanya robe today for my ACN for 2.0. Right now i know for a fact the robe wont go down from 2.2 mil to 220k in 2.0 its gonna be something like 500k. I Sell Ele ores as a main source of income and i am 100% sure they wont be selling for 330 gil either but more like 1k gil in 2.0

The value of the Vanya Robe is all about how easy it would be to farm Crawler Cocoon +1 and Effervescent Water +1 in ARR. If it is easier than now the value decrease.

[Preypacer]

Except you're ASSUMING that NO items or MOST items will not have the same place or function as 1.0... That scenario seems pretty unlikely. IF that's the case, then you have a point; but I highly doubt that SE is revamping every single recipe and item to the point that they no longer hold the same place and value to the game as before.

You're ASSUMING that people will still try to charge 1.0 prices in a 2.0 economy, which is a possibility. It's also not the huge problem you and others insist on making it out to be, for one simple reason: The new 2.0 market will not tolerate/abide it.

It's been explained several times now, in a variety of ways, most quite easy to understand. I don't know if people seriously are just not getting it, or if they are and are just being intellectually dishonest, in hopes their pouting and stomping will convince SE to let them bring their 1.0 gil into 2.0 so they can be a gillionaire from day 1.

SE could bring bring down to 1/100th of its current amount, and the same exact thing would happen. Prices will settle in as the community/market establishes the value of items based on their demand and perceived value - based on the value of Gil in 2.0.

Attempting to sell things in a 2.0 market based on 1.0 item or gil values will basically guarantee that you sell nothing. Why? Because people won't buy wildly inflated items in any economy... except the rare person who's foolish or impatient enough to do so. Other will list the same items at more reasonable prices, and their items will sell first.

Whether the gil value was reduced to 1/10th, 1/100th or even 1/1000th of its current value, the same thing would happen. The market will determine the price and in time, things will settle in. It's the same thing that happens when a huge amount of currency is removed from an inflated economy due to RMT/Gold Buying. Prices come down to meet the adjusted currency value.

Will there be people who still try to sell things at 1.0 rates? Probably. Make a mental note of how long you see them selling for those prices, though. They'll either be sitting at their inflated price for a long time, or they'll be reduced to a more reasonable price.

[KiriA500]

Did anyone ever think about the following:
Player A 900'000'000 -->90'000'000 Loss: 810'000'000
Player B 90'000'000 -->9'000'000 Loss: 81'000'000

This means that the more money you actually have now the more buying power you loose, also the more playtime gets nullified. I can understand that some people get angry and dissapointed when they think about the time they spent with the main purpose of aquiring money and now they just loose it and get nothing out if it.
For the overall market this may be positiv but for the individual that looses that money its much more then just everyone same percentual loss for everyone.
Would anyone think its funny to build a house for a year, then I come and destroy it telling you we need to even the missbalance, your house was to big compared to that other guys house. So his stays, yours gets totaly destroyed. You can spend that year again to build it.
Basically SE made an error, now they try to balance it out hurting the players that put more effort into getting financally well.

Also, you have no clue what you're talking about.