If SE is taking away my hard work...

[Almalexia]

Why should someone a sell an item for 1/10th and care about what is trying to happen with redenomination when when he can sell it at 5/10ths of its current value, and 20 other people can sell for around that mark also.

If such transactions were predicated solely on redenomination, the people who sell items in 2.0 for 5/10ths of the items' 1.0 value are as ignorant as the people who buy those items at that price. It's not sustainable for either group. Prices won't permanently change unless an item in question is, for whatever reason, more valuable to players in 2.0. For items with comparable values, there will be a short-term boon as opportunistic sellers try to gouge people for a quick gil--not because of redenomination, but because there's no price history available for reference.

[Ferth]

The one countering point I can make to that position, Punainen, is that items are not going to be a straight conversion from 1.0 supplies and demands to 2.0 supplies and demands.

Whether prices ever come close to the 1/10th relative ratio standard is really immaterial because the value for those items will depend solely on their place in the 2.0 economy. They really won't have any relation to 1.0 pricing beyond coincidence. Some items may be worth more some items may be worth less... some might even miraculously hit that 1/10th mark but after the first week... the first month... the first year... the price for every item will be where the 2.0 economy places it, and it will have absolutely no link to the value items used to have in 1.0.

The redenomination is going to have far less of an impact than you think it will.

and to viion:

The point you keep trying to make is flawed because it depends on either a monopoly occurring or everyone else being kind of dim.

Yours is flawed for the exact opposite reason, you don't expect people to price high, you expect everyone to be nice and play even, i just don't think that is going to happen... Especially with plenty of new players coming in.

I made no such assertions with my argument. None whatsoever. My argument is based on the belief that the economy in 2.0 will function like every economy everywhere.

At the start of 2.0 prices may indeed be exorbitantly high. But when the economy has time to stabilize I doubt they will remain so. Not because of gum drops and rainbows and hippie love-ins. But because of how economies work. Because when the price doesn't fit the demand for an item it won't stay there. The people you are afraid of may sell a few of their over priced items at first, but I would be absolutely amazed if the prices used in the first week of 2.0 persist passed the first month.

[WHS]

I think taking away our money is sneaky bullshit to compensate for a retarded game setup to begin with. You said Yoshi you would not take anything away from us when we go to 2.0 and now you revoke your promise and steal our money. I dont care you set npc sell values to 1/10, i don't buy off npc I buy off the market and it hurts to have my money taken away. I only live on about 4 to 7mil period from time to time. I don't have and have never had 999 mil. This is a stupid mistake and If I find in 2.0 I can't live because you took my money I and as many ppl as I can take with me will leave your game for good. I will open a webpage and campaign players away from you. While ppl in this thread might support your stealing our gil I am sure a fair number of silent gamers will not. I bet you will feel what you are doing to us. I for one will never trust you or any dev again if you do go ahead and steal my money. I am not rich but I can make a living for now. I don't see how I will in this new steal my money game you invision. My wife and kids all play this with me and as we try to make some money this weak all they do is let me know how it hurts them for you stealing their money. I have tried to convince them it won't be this bad but man I am having a hard time believing that myself.

[Punainen]

The one countering point I can make to that position, Punainen, is that items are not going to be a straight conversion from 1.0 supplies and demands to 2.0 supplies and demands.

Whether prices ever come close to the 1/10th relative ratio standard is really immaterial because the value for those items will depend solely on their place in the 2.0 economy. They really won't have any relation to 1.0 pricing beyond coincidence. Some items may be worth more some items may be worth less... some might even miraculously hit that 1/10th mark but after the first week... the first month... the first year... the price for every item will be where the 2.0 economy places it, and it will have absolutely no link to the value items used to have in 1.0.

The redenomination is going to have far less of an impact than you think it will.

and to viion:



I made no such assertions with my argument. None whatsoever. My argument is based on the belief that the economy in 2.0 will function like every economy everywhere.

At the start of 2.0 prices may indeed be exorbitantly high. But when the economy has time to stabilize I doubt they will remain so. Not because of gum drops and rainbows and hippie love-ins. But because of how economies work. Because when the price doesn't fit the demand for an item it won't stay there. The people you are afraid of may sell a few of their over priced items at first, but I would be absolutely amazed if the prices used in the first week of 2.0 persist passed the first month.

Except you're ASSUMING that NO items or MOST items will not have the same place or function as 1.0... That scenario seems pretty unlikely. IF that's the case, then you have a point; but I highly doubt that SE is revamping every single recipe and item to the point that they no longer hold the same place and value to the game as before.

[Ferth]

Except you're ASSUMING that NO items or MOST items will not have the same place or function as 1.0... That scenario seems pretty unlikely. IF that's the case, then you have a point; but I highly doubt that SE is revamping every single recipe and item to the point that they no longer hold the same place and value to the game as before.

That's the thing, though. I'm not making that assumption at all. You are projecting that view point onto my argument because it is the view you already hold.

Some items probably are going to jump up significantly in price. But I'd be willing to bet that most of those items are worth next to nothing right now. The higher the inherent value of an item though, the less likely it is going to follow that trend.

Using Viion's same example of a double melded Sarnga used for relic. Assuming it retains it's function as the base item for the relic bow, right now at the price tag of 30m if someone who has capped gil (999,999,999) wants to buy that bow it's not a huge investment in terms of their total wealth. (3%) If they want it, they probably won't think twice about buying it.

If after the redenomination the price for a double melded sarnga only drops to 15m and that same person drops from 999,999,999 to 99,999,999 then suddenly the cost of that bow is suddenly 15% of their total wealth they will be far less likely to buy it on a whim than they were when it was only 3%. They might decide that they still really want it and are willing to pay for it but chances are they'll probably choose to wait until the price drops. If they decide to wait, how long will it take for the person trying to sell it at 15m to reprice it lower? How long will it take for someone else to make one and try and price it lower? How long will it take for someone to actually buy it? all of that is up in the air.

If you want to fear that the buyer will give in before the seller, then fine. I can't really tell you you are wrong. Because we won't know unless and until it happens. But it also won't be a stable price until it happens numerous times.

I believe that every item will find it's new price in 2.0 after a period of uncertainty, and regardless of where those prices fall in relation to their 1.0 counterparts I will have the same relative wealth with which to purchase them as I had before the redenomination, because I also believe that the economy in 2.0 will function like a brand new economy and won't try to relate to old prices from 1.0.

Whether those prices as a whole trend toward being higher, being lower or magically average out to pretty close it doesn't really matter because the prices will be dictated by the current demand weighted by the supply. Not by how much they used to cost several months ago when the game was completely different.

[Preypacer]

Except you're ASSUMING that NO items or MOST items will not have the same place or function as 1.0... That scenario seems pretty unlikely. IF that's the case, then you have a point; but I highly doubt that SE is revamping every single recipe and item to the point that they no longer hold the same place and value to the game as before.

You're ASSUMING that people will still try to charge 1.0 prices in a 2.0 economy, which is a possibility. It's also not the huge problem you and others insist on making it out to be, for one simple reason: The new 2.0 market will not tolerate/abide it.

It's been explained several times now, in a variety of ways, most quite easy to understand. I don't know if people seriously are just not getting it, or if they are and are just being intellectually dishonest, in hopes their pouting and stomping will convince SE to let them bring their 1.0 gil into 2.0 so they can be a gillionaire from day 1.

SE could bring bring down to 1/100th of its current amount, and the same exact thing would happen. Prices will settle in as the community/market establishes the value of items based on their demand and perceived value - based on the value of Gil in 2.0.

Attempting to sell things in a 2.0 market based on 1.0 item or gil values will basically guarantee that you sell nothing. Why? Because people won't buy wildly inflated items in any economy... except the rare person who's foolish or impatient enough to do so. Other will list the same items at more reasonable prices, and their items will sell first.

Whether the gil value was reduced to 1/10th, 1/100th or even 1/1000th of its current value, the same thing would happen. The market will determine the price and in time, things will settle in. It's the same thing that happens when a huge amount of currency is removed from an inflated economy due to RMT/Gold Buying. Prices come down to meet the adjusted currency value.

Will there be people who still try to sell things at 1.0 rates? Probably. Make a mental note of how long you see them selling for those prices, though. They'll either be sitting at their inflated price for a long time, or they'll be reduced to a more reasonable price.

[moriandrio]

You should just be glad they didnt a real wipe :P

[viion]

You should just be glad they didn't a real wipe :P

Well personally, I kind of wish they did, but people would stock on items and it wouldn't work. This method works, in my eyes it reduces the amount of gil people have without taking it away and makes everything much more expensive, not many will stock because some people choose to believe those items will be 1/10th the value, I believe they will be more like 3/10ths or 4/10ths so me and a small few will earn some of our Gil back from this.

[whoopeeragon]

You should just be glad they didnt a real wipe :P

With the migraine I'm getting, I hope we do get one just to have something else to complain and bitch about...

[Colino]

You should just be glad they didnt a real wipe :P

I don't know. If getting gil will generally be as easy as it is now, a wipe really wouldn't be that big of a deal. But since there will be more gil sinks I doubt that will be the case.