The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[Xeno]

There's a lot of confusion recently since the terms "causal" and "hardcore" mean different things to different people.

IMO, the best rewards should go to the players with the best skills.

IF "casual" = "not skilled" and "hardcore" = "skilled", then yes, the best rewards should go to the hardcore players.


But, if "casual" = "can only play 1-5 hours a week" and "hardcore" = "plays 5 hours a day", then the best rewards should go to either player, since time spent playing this game is not at all an indicator of intelligence, strategy, skill, and cooperation. In this definition, if both players are of the same aptitude, they will both reap good rewards eventually, with the hardcore player getting them sooner on account of more time spent in game.


In the end, the good stuff should be rewarded to the players who are good enough to overcome challenges, regardless of how much time they are able to stay logged in.

Being able to camp a NM spawn for 24 hours straight is not a challenge.

Being able to defeat a NM that requires concentration, skill, strategy and cooperation IS a challenge.

Oh, I completely agree. It's just the more and more I read these forums (and others) the more people I see that want an "I win" button. Camping an NM for 24 hours is stupid, but camping it for like 10 minutes when it pops every 24 hours on the hour isn't a bad system. It prevents a huge influx of the item into the game, which is good, since it is a rare item. I'm just growing tired of the casuals who don't want a challenge because they don't want to spend the time in-game to either get good or get the items they want. Because of that crowd is why this game isn't challenging. SE heard their cries...

[Kazahashi]

This thread is now over. Quoting for emphasis.

Agreed.

I'm personally tired of all the casual whining. I said this in another thread and I'll say it here as well. In the MMO market, you have pretty much 90% of the games being catered towards casuals. That's a lot of game choices there, with the remaining 10% being moderate to hardcore.....EVE being probably the most hardcore MMO I've come across.

My point is, is casuals can't have everything they want. If the game is too hardcore for you, then play something else. The designers are allowed to make the game as casual or hardcore as they want to, just let them take it down the path they feel is right. There's no need for the hardcores OR the casuals to come here and whine and complain like they're entitled to something from the developer. I've never purchased an MMO and been like "OMG this game isn't hardcore enough", I just quit and move on to something else (Rift, as an example of this).

The problem here, is the same as I've said before too. SE has too big a line of communication between the players, to the point where the players are acting like they're somehow a part of the development team or something....some ideas are great sure, some input is nice, but damn, let the developers make the game THEY intended or are intending to make. It's not like you don't have options....it's like going to a store and whining cause Skittles aren't sweet enough, well, pick something else then, no one's putting a gun to your head.

Either way, I could care less if the game gets more casual or more hardcore....if it gets more casual, I'll go play TERA or something else down the line (cause I hate casual MMO's anymore), and if it gets more hardcore, cool....but I'm not going to sit online and act like the developers work for me or that I'm such a VIP in the company that they just HAVE to listen to me....cause I'm not, and they don't.

[TheVedis]

Wow some of you are really shallow arent you?
i am semi-hardcore myself, but what casuals are asking is the options to obtain the same items, they are not asking for shit to handed to them right away and i believe they do not mind to work for it, they just do not want shit to be exclusive to people that can play 12hour a day..

not all of them are asking for handouts

but several of them, if not most of them are

Ive scanned alot of posts complaining about how hard it is to level unless your hardcore, followed by they should make it easier for casuals
cuz its not fair that hardcores can level faster
or that they have access to endgame stuff as early
or that they have more money from grinding more mobs

alot of these things are things that CAN NOT BE CHANGED no matter what you do, hardcores will always have the advantage, yet these are some of the most complained about things in casual vs hardcore


things that do matter and dont affect either
lower spawn times on NMs
the ability to buy endgame gear
behests
guildleves for bonus sp that dont require you to play 24/7

those can be improved on to cater to both crowds

[Kazimir]

Stuff needs to be exclusive to people who play a lot of time though. It satisfies the hardcore players. Casuals need access to good loot also but there needs to be gear only obtainable by the hardcore players. Or at least gear that would take casuals a very very long time to get. I personally don't have time to get gear like that but I don't think hardcore players should have to deal with having the same thing everyone else does just because of that.

People say WoW is for casuals yet throughout their existence they've had certain gear that only hardcore players ever got. Yes, even in WoTLK.

[Chardrizard]

Stuff needs to be exclusive to people who play a lot of time though. It satisfies the hardcore players. Casuals need access to good loot also but there needs to be gear only obtainable by the hardcore players. Or at least gear that would take casuals a very very long time to get. I personally don't have time to get gear like that but I don't think hardcore players should have to deal with having the same thing everyone else does just because of that.

People say WoW is for casuals yet throughout their existence they've had certain gear that only hardcore players ever got. Yes, even in WoTLK.

No, making gear exclusives to minority (hardcores) is clearly not a good option. Make them harder for casuals sure, exclusivity is a no no, we are supposed to encourage these things to encourage casuals which clearly is the majority, with more subscription SE would think this is a worthwile game to keep investing on and be able to push for more stuff faster. Win Win for everyone.

I mean how can anyone wants to play on a server with 300 players? i bet Hello Kitty online has more player than us.

[Xeno]

Agreed.

I'm personally tired of all the casual whining. I said this in another thread and I'll say it here as well. In the MMO market, you have pretty much 90% of the games being catered towards casuals. That's a lot of game choices there, with the remaining 10% being moderate to hardcore.....EVE being probably the most hardcore MMO I've come across.

My point is, is casuals can't have everything they want. If the game is too hardcore for you, then play something else. The designers are allowed to make the game as casual or hardcore as they want to, just let them take it down the path they feel is right. There's no need for the hardcores OR the casuals to come here and whine and complain like they're entitled to something from the developer. I've never purchased an MMO and been like "OMG this game isn't hardcore enough", I just quit and move on to something else (Rift, as an example of this).

The problem here, is the same as I've said before too. SE has too big a line of communication between the players, to the point where the players are acting like they're somehow a part of the development team or something....some ideas are great sure, some input is nice, but damn, let the developers make the game THEY intended or are intending to make. It's not like you don't have options....it's like going to a store and whining cause Skittles aren't sweet enough, well, pick something else then, no one's putting a gun to your head.

Either way, I could care less if the game gets more casual or more hardcore....if it gets more casual, I'll go play TERA or something else down the line (cause I hate casual MMO's anymore), and if it gets more hardcore, cool....but I'm not going to sit online and act like the developers work for me or that I'm such a VIP in the company that they just HAVE to listen to me....cause I'm not, and they don't.

Exactly.
/10chars

[Rentahamster]

The problem here, is the same as I've said before too. SE has too big a line of communication between the players, to the point where the players are acting like they're somehow a part of the development team or something....some ideas are great sure, some input is nice, but damn, let the developers make the game THEY intended or are intending to make.

This is a fair point, yes, but I do have one bit of contention with it. They already had a chance to make the game they intended to make. That was the game they released at launch. The rest of us were criticizing it all through beta, but they didn't listen one bit and in the end, Tanaka gave us the "sorry, but we were too busy fixing technical bugs to implement new gameplay changes"

Well, valid excuse or not, they made the game that they wanted to make, and didn't bother to utilize any of the fan input or criticism. It turned out to be a very bad game.

Hopefully this time, they can get a feeling for what the fans want to play, and make a game that can cater to the largest playerbase possible without leaving any particular niche of gamers feeling ignored or marginalized.

[Kazahashi]

Hopefully this time, they can get a feeling for what the fans want to play, and make a game that can cater to the largest playerbase possible without leaving any particular niche of gamers feeling ignored or marginalized.

Sure, but at the end of the day, it needs to be their choice, not yours, or anyone elses what path it goes down. Tanaka didn't listen to beta testers....last time I checked Tanaka isn't running the show anymore. Let Yoshi make the game he wants to make, and just chill out with this stupid MOAR CASUAL bs....it's a game, if you don't like it....again, you have TONS of other options. It's not like XIV is the only MMO, or the only game, on the market right now.

I mean, I could sit here and throw back that XI caters towards hardcores more than casuals, and that game is pretty damn popular, and has been for years. You don't need WoW sub numbers to have a good game....or even a successful one....that logic is a tad bit flawed. You don't need to cater to the "largest playerbase"....lol, which, last time I checked, the largest playerbase in XI, isn't casuals, and all those folks, including myself, have been loyal customers for years. Most of the "fans" are XI vets, so....yea, I'll just end my post right there, I don't think anymore needs to be said.

But then again, like I said, if it gets more casual....well, whatever, I have other things I can play. Cause I won't be playing a game that gives everyone hand-outs just for logging in and running outside of a city for an hour a week, and I don't even play for that long....maybe 2-3 hours an evening, if that....and I still manage to have fun in this, or XI.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

believe me when i say this; Casual players get stuff less then those Hardcores people, and those Hardcores people are more filthy rich then the Casual Players.

Mark my words... (too casual now, not the riches anymore T_T )

[Elkwood]

First things first, Casuals do not = hardcore players. Even Yoshi agrees.

So what's the deal? Why is it that casual players feel that they should have the same awesome gear that the hardcore players have? This is absolutely beyond me. The more effort you put into something the greater the reward.

IM all for Casual stuff but there needs to be hardcore stuff to